To think all of these people can afford children they just don't want them

[Surgicalprecison]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g7x5kl5l8o

These articles on the BBC lately show me people's priorities in life have shifted, they don't want children enough to compromise on their current lifestyles.

Exactly. This is the dumbest reasoning I've ever seen to have kids. If you have kids that you don't want you are going to turn them into shitty, resentful people, certainly not people who will be wiping your ass when you're older. Only people who want kids should have them. We have the financial means but we both can't stand them, more than reason enough not to have them, thanks.

@Surgicalprecison I didn’t have a partner when I was younger, wasn’t in a stable place and couldn't afford to freeze my eggs and now that I have a partner who would make an amazing dad, we have run out of money for further ivf cycles. AIBU to have not gone out and slept with a random guy to get pregnant and bring a baby up with no father, money or stability?? It wasn’t really a choice, was it?

I really think a lot of this “can’t afford children” rhetoric comes from people having higher expectations of what they want their lifestyle to be like nowadays (probably largely fuelled by social media and FOMO). People in wars have children, families on benefits have children.

OK but so what?

Your position assumes that having children is an inherently good thing. Many people feel their life will be better without children. Many others don’t want to raise children on the breadline.

People always point out that it’s possible to have children on a low income and yes it absolutely is but it’s rarely optimal for the parents or the children.

I don’t really want to deny my child lots of opportunities and advantages and if I had been faced with the choice of having a child on a very low income and not having one I wouldn’t have had one. I don’t see the joy or the social benefit of having children on a very low income.

I think a lot of people think similarly to this and are very much at peace with this. Why is it such a source of handwringing?

I think a lot of men aren't bothered either way. My DH was only 22 when we conceived DD. l don't think he really thought it through, not past the sex anyway. I think if I hadn't wanted a child he would have been fine with that. He actively doesn't want another (neither do I) but if I did I'm confident he could be persuaded.

Also think too hany men like the idea of it but when it comes down to it they cba and leave most of the work to the women.

It feels like a quite negative time to have children right now. The media survives on feeding us shock horror stories and CoL is squeezing many would be families. There is also truth in what a previous poster said about not being shown the positive side to parenthood.
I adore being a mother and have a great relationship with my older teen but we were definitely put off having a second by the worry about possible future financial hardships.
I think it’s true that if you really want a child you will have one but many factors are restricting parents from having more than one which is also a big change.

Who’d want to bring kids into this screwed up world.

The world has always been screwed up 🤷‍♀️

We are in the richest part of the world and all of those interviewed have well above average income even for this country.

People have been having children in poverty for the entire history of the human race, now finally we're well off and life is no longer precarious and people stop having them.

In the UK the highest birth rates are among the poorest people.

Obviously the problem is too much money not too little. You'd have to be pretty dim to interpret the data as the other way round. People simply have so much they've lost touch with basic biological instinct.

This happens the world over, it’s particularly stark in developing countries. Women get more opportunities outside the home and want fewer babies. More women having more opportunities means more men who can meet an equal partner, which in poorer countries in particular is a real draw for the men who increasingly don’t want a wife who will stay home with their 7 children.

The basic biological instinct is overridden by a more considered instinct, to have a good life.

This is a very modern outlook. Having children is about reproducing your DNA basically. Culturally family has been important and contraception more difficult than now. Money would very much be irrelevant as parents wouldn't be thinking about what opportunities children had and it was the accepted norm that everyone had children - women had no choice if they wanted to have a place in society.
These are the things that have changed, it's not about money as such.
No handwringing, just times have changed.
Whether it's good or bad - well it's clearly bad for our species but then we're too developed to live in harmony with the planet so were always going to come to a sticky end, evolutionarily speaking!

People simply have so much they've lost touch with basic biological instinct.

The basic biological instinct is to fuck. The pregnancy is a side effect.

Yep, definitely true. I think my husband would have stepped up if we had kids, he's a very generous and caring person, I mean, he moves snails out of the way when we walk the dog on rainy days, but he is definitely happy with the decision we made.

It should prob be something men should care about more, though I don't know how, bc it certainly isn't fair that the woman gives up everything. I actually think that was one of the main reasons I was always put off by the idea, too much sacrifice for the woman.

For men yes. For women I think they want children... In the moment women like sex but in between times the urge to have children is much stronger (for lots of women not all obviously)

Presumably you're a man.

But either way we are supposed to reproduce, it's the whole point of our existence (evolutionarily)

It's undeniable that the majority of families earning the average wage now struggle, it's basically impossible to live off one income and that the cost of a very basic standard of living Vs. income is now very very different to what it was years before with no sign of improvement.

However, for those where your statement are correct and they could 'technically' afford children a lot of us as the result of that kind of mentality are considering whether or not that's the way to go.

Ok you can pay all of your bills but you're knackered and you have no real quality of life let alone time to dedicate actually raising your children.

I think that's a good thing.

Live and let live. If someone/a couple don’t want kids then that is up to them. Kids cost a fortune and take up so much time, added stress and you don’t have much of a life for the best part. Holidays are almost always ruined by tantrums and moods as is doing anything nice and as I parent, I often question my reasons for having them sometimes when I’m that way out. Grandparents aren’t even that invested anymore so that village everyone talks about is non existent - our grandparents aren’t arsed and we rarely see them so paired with a couple working full time, school events ramping up etc it’s crucifying at times and we don’t get a break. My youngest is 10, eldest is 14 and my parents are mid 70’s and now requiring some basic help which will get worse as time goes on, ironic. How do full time working parents fit it all in without excessive burnout. Everyone is spread so thinly. Anyone younger seeing this unfold in front of them via friends or family probably don’t want this for themselves and I don’t blame them one bit. I’m glad I enjoyed my twenties and actually lived and enjoyed my time.

If it creates a safe environment for children, then yes. We provide schooling for children because it's the best for society and the child. Why not childcare prior to school age?

New Conservative leader Kemi Badenoch said in September that maternity pay has gone to far.... between 20 and 25% of children in the UK are in poverty. These are times are not great to raise a child in.
if the powers that be want to raise birth rates there's lots of things that can be done including lowering childcare fees, improving maternity pay, extending paternity pay, helping same sex couples adopt/get IVF etc etc.

Not to do it the way I’d want to do it, no.

Thank you for your honesty.

One thing I would add to this from the perspective of someone who doesn't have children, is that people are leaving it later to consider having children, so that they can enjoy their whole 20s and 30s pretty much. They (we) then go so used to a comfortable life with disposable income, free time and spontaneity, and basically become quite set in our ways, such that if were on the fence about having kids to begin with, we decide to remain child-free and not give up what we have become accustomed to over 15-20 years.

Often because they have trauma-related issues and are institutionalised by that stage, which requires much harder/more conscious parenting than bringing up a relatively unharmed child from toddlerhood.

We are supposed to reproduce, but we were invented before our medical acumen was developed so that we don’t die at the same rate as we would without it, keeping our numbers in check. We have plenty of food, clean water, the ability to build good shelter. We are top of the food chain. So reproduction has to be controlled. We have covered the planet over the millennia like bacteria, or weeds in a garden, using up the resources and killing off everything in our way. This cannot continue. It’s unsustainable.