Being 'held hostage' by "trans" teenage kids

[TryingToGetOrganised2]

In my day, we were goths and emos.

Nowadays, it's gender expression. Don't get me wrong, I am 100% behind the kids that truly feel they were born in the wrong body, but oh for goodness sake, it's not half the flipping population?!

There are a lot of kids who really have gender dysphoria, who I really feel for and support. However, I'm so fed up of being told I'm a transphobe, because I dare question and gently encourage soemone to unpick where their feelings come from. (Read: my own 17 year old son, who is autistic and doesn't know where he fits in the world)

The main military operation is my 16 year old daughter, who is, on the whole, a wonderful human whom I adore. She's just so far down this road of 'you can be anything you want, sod biology' that anyone who asks a question, is shot down and cut off, for having a (possibly) more rounded, adult perspective. She can't see further than her own underdeveloped frontal lobe, and it's driving me insane.

Of course, I'm presenting, gentle, measured, acceptance mum (which, of course - I truly am, if that's who you truly are!) But I feel like she's pushing my son into a lifestyle because he's questioned who he is. Am I being unreasonable to feel frustrated? Or should I suck it up and encourage my boy to be a girl, even though I don't really think it's what he actually wants?

Please be gentle. I've got 3 kids with autism and adhd, amd, having both myself, it's the blind leading the blind. I'm exhausted and just need a bit of support in either direction.

Like you say, when we were young we developed a teen subculture which many adults hated.

Today's teens are too.

Such is the way of things.

YANBU and your daughter should let your son find his own path.

There’s growing evidence that many, in fact most, young people are changing their minds as they mature, and pushing them into irreversible treatment is highly unethical.

Could you help your son unpick what he wants? To try out a different name? Explore hobbies he sees as feminine (embroidery, flower arranging, whatever)? Find a group where he feels he fits in (choir, dungeons & dragons, expressive dance)? Try out long hair and nail polish?
Something that doesn’t say that you reject his feelings, but doesn’t involve him teetering around in heels and a dress. Because this, unfortunately, screams ‘kick me’ to some people.

I am very easy going about most things. But have found this massive shift a load of bollocks.
I was a "tomboy" which I always found annoying because I was a girl..a girl who happened to not give a shit about make up or clothes or what ever girls should be into.
Now I am 100% certain I would be forced (by peer pressure) into a path of gender neutrality. Or some other bullshit.
I have with my kids told them this many times. They are pretty neutral/against the subject despite being neurodiverse.
OP I would be factual and calm.

At 35 I’m still a goth. Day in, day out. Not everyone "grew out of it". I have a 12 year old DD who has just started to borrow my clothes. I still get abuse for the way I've long chosen to look. I hate that she will too. If anyone dares to criticise her in front of me I'll bloody have them.
DD wore every gorgeous dress in pink, purple, white, red, blue, everything from newborn (I never forced my style on her) she started to develop her own style about two years ago. I let her choose her own way.
Your DD needs to let your son choose his own way. She might feel like she's the most informed but at her age she needs to understand that she should take a back seat. She can talk about her views and opinions but she doesn't get to push those onto anyone else, especially to force them into being what she thinks they should. He's older too, she certainly shouldn't think it's her place to do that. It needs nipping in the bud quickly.

However, I'm so fed up of being told I'm a transphobe, because I dare question and gently encourage soemone to unpick where their feelings come from.

Why are you “daring to question” and “gently encouraging”? Your daughter is more than capable of making up her own mind. You don’t want her to express her views to you, but you have zero issue with expressing your views to her.

Please be gentle.

Have you been gently with your daughter?

Sure I personally think it is all nonsense but I am not sure what is worse this modern 'I think I should be able to identify as a wasp if I want' or someone trying to convince someone to think like them or think a certain way

It's not her daughter who is questioning her gender. The daughter is questioning her brother's gender.

It's normal for teenagers to feel very alienated from their bodies. It happens because they are changing so fast - they actually feel like a strange new body. And also because their brain is mush and trying to reform, so their emotions are out of control.

They are being led to believe this is "body dysphoria" which is bs. It's just a normal part of being a teen, and it becomes better as they spend more time in their body doing useful things, rather than obsessing about how they feel or look or identify.

Your daughter is being a real danger to your son and you need to put a stop to it. She's a child. You are the adult. You can tell her to stop and a few hard truths. You don't need to tread softly when she is doing something so potentially dangerous.

Thin ice ...

Can your dd explain why she is forcing her brother into declaring his gender? Could you ask her she would out him before he is ready to make up his own mind? I think that’s what would be suggested as it’s using her ideology to question her thought process.

This is your child op. You have to parent according to your real beliefs and intuition, not accommodate the zeitgeist.

I'm not sure if it helps, but when my DD was 14, she told me she wasn't sure if she was a boy.
My response (probably the most reasoned thing that's ever come out of my mouth)
Was, OK let's ditch labels for a bit.
I want you to know that gender is a fairly fluid thing, so don't think just because you're not a teeny tiny, love everything shiny and fluffy type of person, that excludes you from being a female. You come from a long line of women considered Tom boyish, outliers of what society thinks a woman should be, or aim to be...
I need you to keep that in mind, and we're not going to label anything, we're going to concentrate on how you feel, and what brings you happiness. Buy your clothes from wherever you want. I don't care, and I will support you to explore this, as fully as possible.

I then explained that the line was, no medications or anything that could be permanent until she was 18. I'd heard horror stories of people being on the hormone blockers as minors and it caused long term damage, and other people who had surgery and still felt at odds with their body, and both were pain I wanted her to avoid.

I also said that I really hoped that in the long run, she found peace in her female body, because it would be a hard road ahead if not, but the transition would be easier than living in a body she hated. Regardless she had my love, and understanding as much as I could.

I said I'd ask questions, but this was a fairly new concept to me.

We lived the life for about 10 months. She almost entirely purchased mens clothes, she wore bras that minimised the look of the boobs (she explained it to me)

Then one day, hello kitty was back, pink pyjamas appeared, she wanted make up, she seemed at peace with herself.

2 years on, she wears skirts and dresses on occasion, shes definitely a girl, but she hangs out with boys mostly, she is studying in a male dominated field, she has a boyfriend and she's never going to be a girly girl...outside of HK and all things squishmallow! But she does recognise that media has a lot to do with making teens that don't fit the mould feel as though they just fit into the trans community.

Op my 13 and 15 year old are both questioning their gender too. Well my daughter actually seems to think she is a boy. It’s utterly regressive bollox and very damaging so I’m acknowledging their feelings but not going along with it because I’m the parent and I do know better than them, however much they outwardly disagree.
I actually get the feeling they feel safety with me having this attitude because I’m a tether to reality for them both. It would be destabilising for everyone in these children’s lives to pretend they’re something that they’re not and if we show them that we love and accept them for who they are no matter how they present themselves, hopefully they’ll come to realise that being a tomboyish girl or feminine boy is absolutely fine.
my daughter is the most feminine transboy ever anyway.
There are support groups such as Our Duty and Bayswater Support too if you need more help or support from parents in the same boat. There are many of us.

What does this mean?

I'd refer my daughter to theoffensivetranny (marcus) on YouTube. And perhaps buck angel. But I think she'll vibe more with Marcus.

I think its very important that teens see that there's trans people who speak out against the new norm of transitioning kids. As well as other current trans activist bollocks.

I'd be watching buck angel and Marcus 24/7 when my kids were around if I had a trans kid.
That way they can't say you're being transphobic because they can see there are different views on being trans from trans people too.

I'd also tell my daughter that whilst you don't have the right to tell her how to identify, she doesn't have the right to do it to her brother either. And needs to step back and stop pushing her own narrative onto him.

Did I say any different?

With your son alone, show statistics highlighting factual percentages of autistic children with gender dysphoria, also the psychology behind this. Get him some non masculine male role models to show that males can dress however they like. Dance clubs, art clubs, drama clubs will possibly offer more variety of role models then rugby or football clubs. Focus on other things with both children so that that gender doesn’t turn into a teenage parent challenge between you all. Less is more. Subtlety indirectly and increased knowledge is best to enable reflection. With your DD talk chat more about women’s general issues as and when they arise… so an article in the paper might highlight femicide rates and individual cases … demonstrate your genuine empathy towards the individual women without entering gender discussions. Women’s issues for me would be periods, HRT, menopause, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, sexual assault percentages, stem subject engagment, birth, pregnancy, trafficking, FGM, femicide, prison crimes, nighttime safety

The problem is that previous subcultures did not involve teens permanently altering their bodies in a way which reduces their sexual function and possible future fertility, nor did they involve rejecting the category of womanhood making same sex spaces impossible nor were they based on regressive gender stereotypes.

Mostly ours didn’t result in permanently life altering deformation and medicalisation along with a dollop of enabling males into women’s spaces though.

But you can just take the clothes and makeup off if you wanted to right? You can’t grow breasts back or regain permanently stunted fertility.

What would the reaction be if you told them, posted on SM and announced to all who would listen that you are transitioning, and from now on will be known as Wilbur?

I'm exactly the same. I know I would have been so confused by all of this. I am 100% supportive and happy to call people whatever the hell they want to be called, but I hope it's blown over before my very sensitive, ND 8yo "tomboy" reaches her teens.

A few weeks ago she was telling me that she doesn't feel "like a girl" because most of her friends are boys and she doesn't like "girl things", I was exactly the same at her age but I didn't have this narrative that I must therefore be a boy in the background.

If it turns out that she is trans so be it, I will support her whoever she is. But she's so set on these "gender rules" that she's picked up despite having never gone to school and had that peer pressure or bullying for being different that I did and that concerns me. Especially as I know that autistic teens are more likely to experience gender dysphoria.

I absolutely don't care if she experiments with gender identity or any other identity as adolescents do, I certainly did! But my piercings could be removed, and the risk of significant permenant damage to my body didn't include stunting my growth hormones or risking my fertility. Being treated with drugs for gender dysphoria can't be fixed or dismissed so easily, we now know that despite what the claims used to be. But bringing up this concern IRL makes you a bigot and transphobe.

I find it diminishes the true suffering of those who actually do question who they are gender wise who have body dismorphoa.

The same way as any kid who needs to be clean or have things a certain way will say "Little bit OCD" or "little bit autistic".

It's clumsy and dismissive of true suffering but I don't think it's done to deliberately cause harm.

I think I'd have some fun with it though and be something different everyday and keep repeating that statement "I can be who I like"

And I'd make sure I'm something that can't cook, clean , iron and drive people around to places

Being a goth didn't affect others though, nor did it (aside from ear stretching, perhaps tattoos and piercings) cheer on questionable medical procedures or medications.

OP I wouldn't be bothered by DD's opinions if they weren't affecting your DS and intervening in you trying to support him. Its a tricky situation.