Feels like I'm losing the kids

[HandOld]

My boys are 6 and 3.

My husband can be a total arsehole. I'm really trying to find the strength to leave. There is just a lot of logistical things that feel impossible.

I said something he didn't like just now and he was "fucks sake this and that" "fuck off" "don't fucking ignore me" "your life is collapsing" "you got a fucking huge ego on you" all in frotn of the kids. I'm just ignoring him as don't want hom to shout anymore in frotn of them so trying not to antagonise. He says "I'm not shouting. Get a fucking grip" etc.

I apologised and he calmed down. And both boys went on the sofa and cuddled H and he started cooinh over them and giving them sweets and H glared at me and ive left them downstairs. And now I'm all alone upstairs

If I leave I'm going to lose my boys. They think he's so cool and fun. I'm meant to be working in 30 mins and I can't stop crying. They love him so much and he's so nice to them. But he's so cruel to me. I just can see them staying with him and I'll be alone and they'll hate me.

I know this isn't an AIBU but I'm in so much pain. I feel like I can't breath. I don't know what to do.

They are 3 and 6 - They do not have any say in the matter!! You are their parent and have to do what’s best for them so take some control back.

You’re more likely to lose them if you stay because they’ll grow up speaking to you and other women the same way their dad does.

Do you have any family you can go to when he’s at work? Call a domestic abuse charity for their advice? You need to do something asap.

Oh goodness. Well for starters I'm glad you know you have to leave. Who do you have supporting you - parents, siblings, friends? Do they know what's going on? Now's the time to lean on them for moral support.

I would try to respond to H saying these things by just repeating broken-record statements like "it's not ok to speak to me like that," "I'm not listening to you if you can't be civil" etc. It's not engaging with him and it's modelling to your kids that we don't put up with this.

Definitely leave as soon as you can. You won't lose them. You will also be a cool, fun parent when you don't have this awful ball and chain around your neck!

Look up fight flight freeze fawn. You’re not losing the kids they are displaying a fawn response to an abusive situation. They are young but already learning to protect themselves by fawning and appeasing the person who is a threat.

You should consider the trauma they are experiencing in these moments and use it to fortify your strength to leave

You are not losing them, so there is no need to cry over yourself anymore.

Now do what’s best for them and for you and get away from their abusive father.

1. Do not apologise when it isn’t your fault. Seeing you say sorry makes the kids think it’s your fault. If you need to leave an argument tell him you will not speak to him when he’s swearing at you and walk away. I assume he doesn’t hit you but if he does then you should leave with the kids now for a women’s shelter.
2. Seek legal advice. Solicitors will often advise you to find out as much about the family finances as possible before filing for divorce. For custody if you don’t work and he does then you will automatically start with more custody at this age with the view of it turning to 50/50. But often it’s better for you to start at 50/50 so you can find work. If you’re worried about him poisoning the kids against you then the solicitor can give you advice about that too as the court system takes a dim view of this.
3. Start preparing to leave him. Let close / trusted friends and family know and try to get their help. If you work and have your own money begin to look at rental properties - estate agents often have special procedures for vulnerable people like you and will keep all correspondance at the shop if required.
4. This is a bit sneaky but imo start building an amazing 1-2-1 relationship with the kids as you plan to leave. Manipulate them into thinking you’re the best parent by giving in (temporarily) to what they want, giving lots of cuddles, taking them out, doing special things with just you. Kids aren’t stupid. When they realise mum can be just as fun and lovely as dad (but without the shouting and swearing) they will naturally come to prefer you. Don’t fall into the trap of being strict with them because he’s indulgent.

I don’t think “manipulating” kids who are already experiencing domestic abuse is good advice.

kids need love, security and boundaries not a double head fuck by two different parents.

They don't like the man, they're having trauma inflicted on them and are desperately appeasing their abuser.
Their developing brains will be flooded with cortisol, read up on how this impacts people for life.

With all due respect you have no idea what it’s like living with an emotionally and verbally abusive man who uses the kids like this. You often need to do whatever it takes to ensure the kids’ welfare

You have no idea what I know or have experienced. So it may be better to think before you post (that would be showing all due respect)

They're doing this because they're scared of him and trying to appease him . I know because I experienced the same growing up . You're not going to lose them .

Not sure I would agree my previous post constitutes breaking the talk guidelines. It wasn’t a personal attack but may have contained a more incredulous response to a posters massive assumption with an expletive commonly used unmoderated on MN.

They are trauma bonding and you are allowing it. You should have left the room with the children when he started. If he gets physical, you call the police.

Take a video next time he does this. So sorry for you Op.

Manipulate them into thinking you’re the best parent by giving in (temporarily) to what they want, giving lots of cuddles, taking them out, doing special things with just you. Kids aren’t stupid. When they realise mum can be just as fun and lovely as dad (but without the shouting and swearing) they will naturally come to prefer you. Don’t fall into the trap of being strict with them because he’s indulgent

Or, you could ignore this advice from @Ozanj and focus on being the consistent, predictable, safe parent

I think you need to leave now ASAP while they're little and before your H does them any more damage. Once they are 10+ they may get a say in where they live.

Please don't feel they love him more, like PP said they're trauma bonded. Of course they run to Daddy and fawn over him because they don't want him to shout at them like he does at you and they know he'll be angry if they go to you.

Even if he has them 50% when you split, you'll be giving them a calm home for 50% of the time and removing them as missiles that he can use to get at you. Will he even actually want them 50% or does he just enjoy the cuddles, using them to get at you and giving them sweeties?

This.

I’m sorry this is what you are having to deal with,💕🥲 he’s such a cruel man to behave this way towards you, and it’s no accident that he’s doing it in front of your children s eyes.

it’s a form of control over them as well as you.

They do love you! They just need to please him to feel safe as they know that if they are on the wrong side of him he could get nasty, like they see him behaving when he’s nasty towards you.

He will never change
But you can change and so can the children.

Go with the children to a family member, a friend, or a coffee shop and call women’s aid for support.

I am doing things. I have a solicitor meeting booked on Monday. I've got my own bank account and my own job and income but also a lot of debt because of him. I just feel so terrified that I've already lost the kids. The little one used to be attached to me and now not so much. Maybe the damage is already done.

He doesn't hit me. But they know daddy is the boss. Even though he is the most insecure, useless, cowardly man - and actually I do everything that is hard or stressful - but he plays up to being the big man and he puts me down in frotn of them and now they go to him. Won't leaving make their bond even stronger? I can't believe this is my life. How have i fucked it up this much. 2 years ago I tried to leave and didn't manage it. What an idiot I was. I'm so full or regret and guilt I feel sick.

the children won't go with me. and i'm trying to downplay it to make it less horrible for them

Do not, and I cannot stress this enough, do not let him use your children to bully you into staying because you think your relationship with them is over if you leave.

I'm another one who was guilty of sometimes fawning over my abusive father because I was desperate to make him stop, and he used to do the thing of being nasty to my mother in front of me. He did it deliberately. I understand that now. And if I got upset, it only encouraged him to be even worse. So I learned early on not to. Appease his moods. Tell him what he wanted to hear. Cuddle him when being near him made me feel sick.

He does not care about the children. If he did, he wouldn't speak to you like that in front of them. He's doing it in front of them on purpose and they are doing the best they can to manage that situation. He's being nice to them because it's to his advantage right now. It gives him power and it hurts you. They are reacting the way they are because what else can they do, really? Don't be fooled into thinking it means more than it does.

They are very young. What has been done can still be undone. But they need space from him in order to do it.

FWIW when my father asked me if I loved him I always said yes. But I didn't. I hated him.

Clarify what you mean by his debt that you are paying ?
Can you refuse to take on his debt?
Its brave of you to make plans to leave and it’s understandable that you are feeling exhausted

Do you have a family member or friend that the children will come with you to go and visit, while you call women’s aid?

You need to leave asap.

it won’t strengthen their bond - what will happen is that when the cowardly, aggressive, weak, silly shit has them alone and doesn’t want to do the hard yards or to keep up the Jolly Daddy pretence when he just wants to watch the footy but it’s his weekend to have them - he will disengage. He’s not likely to want good, consistent contact. He will start letting them down when you’re not there to do the hard stuff, as you say in your OP.

Also - they may love him but they also fear him. They’re all over him because they know what the game is by now. They play their roles and out come the sweets and no one shouts any more. Your kids are protecting themselves.

Leave. There will be hard times but ultimately they will grow, they will see him for what he is, and you’ll have a home where YOU are the boss and my word, what a much nicer place it will be, where people can relax and be secure in a family, than Daddy’s place. Even if they go through periods where they choose him, because they need to work things out for themselves, even by giving them that secure home you will save them. And you will also save yourself and your relationship with them. They will see you not as the downtrodden one they need to collude in bullying to stay safe, but the strong loving mum who said NO MORE.