Rude, Racist or Right?

[tarmactreacle]

I rarely travel by bus but yesterday I was queuing behind a man for a bus to town.

When he got on he said "name of destination". The driver replied "no, it's "single to name of destination PLEASE". Have some manners, We're in England"

The man then politely repeated what the bus driver had asked him to say, took his ticket and sat down.

The man was black and the "we are in England" felt unnecessary and made me feel uncomfortable.

What are your thoughts?

Rude wrong and racist. No other reason to add that ending.

He 100% would NOT have said it to a white person from Poland though, because he would have assumed that white = English.

I agree to an extent, some cultures don't say please and thank you and it's fine to politely correct that when it's appropriate (a pp used an example above of telling a relative what to do, which I think is absolutely fine) but there's no way the driver would have spoken like that to any other white dude.

Rude - yep! much worse to admonish an adult than to fail to say "please". The guy didn't say "give me a ficking ticket to Blackpool, nob head" whilst gobbing on the floor. So no need for the patronising telling off.

Racist - absolutely! Impossible to imagine how "We're in England now" comment was anything else.

I would tend to think potentially anti-foreigner rather than racist, assuming the man was not in fact English. If he was, might be more towards rude.

I realize people elide racist with other things these days but they are different.

All this being said: Social norms can really be different in different places and I do think this can cause social frictions. When I was visiting my relatives (in a majority non-white place), they were careful to instruct me on appropriate behaviours before they sent me out on my own, which were much more formal - please and thank-you, and also greeting strangers you walk past, very different tipping culture, etc. Also as it happens greeting the bus driver and saying thank you when I got off. The overall sense was that while people wouldn't judge me being a clueless foreigner, deep down they think foreigners are a bit rude and I really ought to behave in a civilized way. since I was family.

But it's not really the best idea for a bus driver to try and impart this sort of thing.

Where have you got from the OP that this man was foreign?

This

Agree

Rude and racist. Report to the bus company

Rude and racist. Trying to put the man down by being so condescending

I don't think we can necessarily assume that. The OP didn't say if there were other reasons to think he was not English by birth - He might have spoken with an accent which would be a pretty clear indicator that he wasn't born locally. In which case I think any of us would have come to the same conclusion.

It wouldn't have meant it wasn't rude but it would not have been the assumption you are thinking.

And while you'd think the OP would have mentioned that, I would not assume so., in my experience it's likely she wouldn't have,

Was the bus driver also black?

The OP didn't say one way or another. Where have you got that he wasn't?

She seemed focused on his skin colour and didn't mention whether or not he had a local accent.

Which seems a common thing now. Look at the examples above of people assuming a bus driver wouldn't have said the same thing to a Polish person. There has been plenty of anti-Polish sentiment, especially in some areas, and yes, people sometimes say quite rude things to Eastern Europeans.

Race isn't the only reason some people can be rude.

Was the irony of his sentence not lost on him? Have some manners whilst being very very rude and patronising. Definitely racist undertones.

Edited to say - no undertones. It is just racism. Plain as day.

@TempestTost I'm foreign born, been here 16 years, and still have an accent. I know I'm in bloody England! I don't need a reminder or a lesson in manners . Neither did that man. Especially since please and thank you do not belong to the English exclusively AND not every single English person uses them. In fact, there's a considerable decline in usage.

It’s rude and racist yes. And as an aside in other languages (such as Spanish) they say please and thank you a lot less - not rude just the way they are.

Adults are allowed to do lots of things. It doesn't make all of those things right. If I hold a door open for someone and they arrogantly swan through without a thank you, you bet I'm going to say a loud thank you after them.

And you say adults are allowed to be rude but they're not allowed to "school" other adults. Why not? If rudeness is allowed in your opinion then other behaviours should also be allowed.

Yes it's racist. It's also just plain unprofessional - no need to police other peoples manners.

He can do what he likes in his own time. But I'm assuming he isn't being paid to piss off passengers and dish out lessons in manners?

I speak accented English in UK. I get the “tut tut” and I” can tell you aren’t ENGLISH” Or “I don’t like the sound of your English” from older people on occasion. For minor “transgressions” like … parking too close to their car bumper in Sainsbury’s and daring to disagree. “It’s close, but I didn’t hit your car”.

I do wonder if anyone overhearing these comments writes into MN about this racism.??

Definitely an EDL bus driver. I won't be convinced otherwise.

So what if he didn't think 'please' was necessary while softly saying [name of destination] and if given the chance (which he wasn't by the rude racist bus driver), he would have said 'thank you' after he got his ticket?! Forcing people to say please isn't polite either. I'd rather someone said it and meant it than the typical British "polite" autopilot 'please and thank you' but sarcastic and nasty behind the person's back.

"Have some manners!"? "We're in England"?
Who do you think you are? That the poor man corrected himself and politely repeated what the driver basically ordered him to say shows that he's a gentleman and didn't "bark" his destination at the driver or say it other than in a gentle polite way. Saying "Please" is not the only way to show politeness, tone matters too. The driver was the rude one and racist too.

I specifically referenced being rude back, very similar to your example of the loud, sarcastic "thank you". That's my point. THAT is how people tend to respond to rudeness. Attempting to "Educate" someone is patronising and, in this case, racist. When that person doesn't say thank you when you hold the door, you don't assume they don't know better. You assume they are being rude. This bus driver is being paternalistic and patronising by assuming this black man doesn't know better and that he has the right to "educate" him.

Thank you everyone. I live in a very predominantly white area so don't often see examples of racism. It made me feel very uncomfortable though which is why I thought it probably was racist.

Thank you for confirming for me. I have now reported the driver.

Well done, thank you 🙏

See, this is pure hypocrisy. How are you here decrying the ignorance of others on the same post that you're lumping the majority of Brits under your own negative stereotype? I mean, what on earth makes you assume that someone would automatically be more educated than a Brit?

Your "average Brit" will learn other languages at school and despite the fact that I'm from a deprived council estate, I've managed to retain that knowledge. I might not be able to hold a conversation on some niche subject but I'd be able to communicate if I ever went to Germany again. In fact I also took it upon myself to begin learning some Spanish before my first visit there. It's not beyond the reach of average people, in fact it's pretty accessible in this day and age.
The attitude you mention also isn't unique to British people. I have had plenty of people be patronising, passive aggressive and also downright rude to me because my Spanish was patchy. But I've also had people do the slow and louder thing too and it's actually pretty helpful when people take the time to enunciate properly for you. When it's your native tongue you often don't realise how fast you're speaking and how lazily you pronounce certain words.

Your opinion is very insular, you'd be surprised how similar people's attitudes are (despite vast cultural differences) in various countries and demographics. So I think your comments about British people are pretty ignorant.

People should say please but that driver was a racist arsehole and should be reported

Of course the part about England was racist. It also suggest that manners only exist in England, which is clearly untrue.

Far too many people don't say please or thank you though.