To have frugality fatigue. (Cost of living.)

[KnopkaPixie]

Just that really. To do so well with finances for nearly a month then get an unexpected expense out of left field, pretending that lentil dahl is absolutely delicious, to have signed up to do surveys on YouGov and the rest and have made sod all, can't work any more hours, can't cut costs any more, can't claim anything off the state and to be kicking myself for not saving more when I had the chance. Just a moan really.

I never wanted to be that kind of miserable gît that resents every penny or knows, "The cost of everything but the value of nothing" But that's the way the value brand cookie is not crumbling right now.

Perhaps a bit woo but sometimes I wonder whether a real poverty mindset becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and perhaps a more speculate to accumulate mentality might do me better? Not any manifesting flapdoodle but just an idle thought.

I'm sorry, just been nodding along in solidarity with the majority of other posters, but had to stop and double take your post.

Can't quite fathom how limiting heating or meals doesn't mean you're poor - at all.

Unless it's being done through choice such as to feed masochistic compulsion.

I can appreciate I'm fortunate to have my flat with it's central heating and combi boiler which makes me more fortunate than some, and that relatively speaking it's affordable, but my budget is so finely tuned unless the temperature dips well below freezing, the heating will remain an enigma. My new sport is watching my smart meter and trying to keep daily gas and electricity consumption to between one and two pounds, because currently my food budget is 80.00 (ish) a month - yes, a month and I'm trying to keep it that way. There's just me and my cat. And don't tell me to get rid of my cat or I'll offer you out. (Joking, obvs)

BUT I think that makes me poor by average standards.

We were at our most poor around 2000. We were in the cycle of losing most of our savings on private rent deposits because for many it was a boom time and the houses we rented kept being sold and we had to every six months. There wasn't the deposit protection in place that there is now. We were young (early 20's), had a baby and my ex couldn't find work so we were living on benefits which were pretty much next to nothing as that was before tax credits.

I remember scrapping for loose change around the house to buy bread and milk and a bag of pasta so we could make sure the baby got some food.

I did find work but it wasn't a high wage and my ex wasn't a great sah parent.

Whenever I feel frustrated now I remember how bad it was then and I feel a degree of satisfaction that although it's not been great managing as a single parent on a low wage I have kept everything better than it was then!

It does grind you down to a point you can't see a way forward.

Global terms and historical UK terms are not relevant - people are talking about their life, here and now, in the UK.

You ARE poor if you have to think every single day how you're going to eek out your income to feed and house your children, and you ARE poor if you can't afford to have much fun in life because you simply don't have the money.

I'm not poor but grew up in an impoverished household - it was bleak.

I'm now living on a pension in France - it's not horrible but 3 days from 'payday' and there is little left in the pot.

I'm a member of a few 'frugal living in France ' type FB groups and I'm constantly annoyed by the boastful posts of 'i saw cheddar cheese half price in Lidl so I cleaned the shelf'.

So annoying in so many ways - yes it's money saving, but you must have lost of spare cash to clean the shelf, and what about leaving some for other people who may need the help.

I'm assuming your too embarrassed to tell any close family/friend's your situation?. If I had a close family member or friend who l knew was in this situation, I'd be buying them a few groceries or treating them to a coffee and cake out. These days it feels like everyone for themselves. Life really shouldn't be like this but the smallest of things can make life a little more enjoyable.

I am on benefits. I don't get the free hours. I have to fork out the childcare fees and hope UC gives it back. To be honest the thresholds have been lowered by the recent government that things that many were eligible for such as free school meals or free prescriptions are no longer available for them. If it is any consolation I imagine you will have a better pension and maybe own your house (hope I am not presuming much). I don't even get free dental treatment.

I have been made homeless several times through no fault of my own. Lived in a caravan,a metal box with ice on the inside of the windows, paraffin heater. My first H tried to kill me...he had his own cleaning business,big airlines,lost the contract never told me, just insured me for a large sum,etc. my boss came round the following day, said he would have to let me go, I couldn't be working in their fine upstanding family firm when this got into the papers,oh dear me no! I had a months wages,car went, phone went (landline only then) I bought my oldest DD a bike so he could get to school,a trolley on wheels to walk to town to Iceland. Benefits office,they were behind a glass screen,you queued, everyone behind you can hear your private business. H had stopped paying the mortgage,job centre had a go at me for having a dog she was 12 part of the family and not going! Two boys one 5,free school meals,I was actually on the breadline. I had a slice of white toast 3 times a day! House was repossessed, spent a year in emergency accommodation. Originally, they were going to put us in b and b, 20 miles away, which meant the boys leaving their schools everything,you had to leave the b and b at 9am in those days,walk the streets. At the 11th hour, I was given a house booked for demolition. I started at the bottom.. I've had 4 jobs at a time, gone from a night shift to a day shift just to keep a roof over our heads! And yes, I love any veggie dhal!

I've been there and ate lots of liver, which is very much cheaper than meat. Make chicken livers into pasta sauce if you can't face it with onions and gravy.

@KnopkaPixie Is that 'Frugal Queen in France'? I saw a few of their videos when their channel first started. I guess the information is more useful to those who live in France, as property/living costs are different to the UK, but I take your point!

🤣🤣🤣

I think that once you've experienced poverty you are terrified of it happening again. I've been careful with money all my life and it's upsetting to see the cost of living go through the roof. You get sick of making do and not having. Of constantly thinking about money.

I've got an ex friend who has spent thousands on nothing and has debt for big holidays but is in a better position than I am. It makes me feel resentful.

If you read OP's later posts, you would know that she says that she has worked in catering and knows how to make dahl.

Your contribution to this thread is so supremely unhelpful, I can't even imagine what sort of person would think this and then actually write it down and post it.

I think a lot of it is about what we are comparing it to. For example, my grandparents lived very simply and definitely rationed food and heating, had second hand clothes, no car, no holidays, but they certainly wouldn’t have described themselves as poor.

These days we are bombarded with higher expectations, so our perspective is different.

I’m not negating the experience of anyone who is struggling, and believe me I’ve been there more than once, but one thing that helped me hugely was changing my mindset about it.

There's someone on this thread who deliberately eats slowly so she can pretend she's full and the kids can have hers. That's living in poverty, and you are being unhelpful.

OP you have my utmost sympathy and respect. I remember repairing my own teeth with superglue more than once because I couldn't afford the dentist, having long hair and pretending it was a choice because I couldn't afford a haircut, pretending I wasn't interested in fashion, because what was the point?

I don't regret that (long) period of my life. It gave me a huge appreciation of the wealth of free things in the world - superb exhibitions at galleries and museums, free concerts, even marketing handouts of samples. I also learned to appreciate the riches of nature. You don't need much money to have the best weekend ever. A muddy walk in the woods, looking for different types of mushrooms and moss, or collecting wild garlic or brambles for cooking, watching the seasons change and the sunlight rise and fall in the sky - there's little better. Coming home to the infamous MN roast chicken (that I can still genuinely get three different meals for four adults from ).

Life is far better now. I definitely agree that a poverty mindset doesn't help. It isn't woo manifesting to have an attitude to life that leans towards believing you are capable of making enough money to be comfortable. I started occasionally spending what I 'couldn't afford' on things I really wanted and discovered I wasn't poorer as a result.

Stop wasting time on stupid surveys. I never understood that £10 a day thread on MN. Your time is precious and valuable. Don't waste it scrabbling for pennies. Work out what you are seriously good at. The best way to do this is to think of things that others keep praising you for, that you take for granted. Then use that skill to earn above NMW per hour as a sideline. I had three related skills I just took for granted. I turned them into tutoring children, teaching adults and doing some work for local businesses. Within a couple of years this was my new profession and I was earning more than double NMW most of the time and up to four times NMW some of the time, depending on projects.

My advice is: go and buy something small, relatively inexpensive but utterly luxurious that you really want. Do this once a week for the next month. Do the same with recipes. Once a week buy what you actually want to eat, not what you should. You can live on beans the rest of the time. You can be clever about it if you want and go for yellow sticker fresh tuna steaks that need to be eaten that day, for example. But once a week pick up something because you want to eat it or to use/have it. And once a month have a family treat that does seem a bit frivolous. It will stop life from feeling so gruelling.

There are a lot of Doctors going to Australia, I know a few personally. They get paid a lot more there so no reason to sit here and get hammered by the NHS.

Not being able to afford to eat properly is absolute poverty let alone relative poverty.

Yes there are other people in absolute poverty elsewhere in the world too. But it doesn’t change fact.

How does this help the OP? If you don't think she is poor, how would you describe her situation? Will thinking about people who are much poorer than she is make her dahl taste better?

The world is an utter shit show at the moment. Even children in the UK living in cold homes eating food from food banks have a better life than the children in Gaza. That doesn't mean that the way they have to live is OK.

It's awful at the moment, we had more disposable income 10-15 years ago and we were paying for childcare at the time!
I could take the kids away for a week in a caravan in Cornwall, can't afford that now.
Meals out, days out, Christmas- we did everything and did it well. We both worked full time on not much more than minimum wage and we felt well off compared to now.
Every conversation ends up being about money, if the kids need new clothes can we afford it? No probably not but they can't exactly walk around naked so plans have to be made.
I am not in the same situation as OP, I am still managing to pay for treats etc for the kids and some bits for us but we will be up shits creek if we are not careful.
It is the relentless drudgery of thinking about every sodding penny that gets you in the end I think, more so than going without even. The nights you spend awake thinking about it even though you are exhausted and need the sleep, the crushing feeling you get when your child needs a fiver to join in something at school, even a retirement do at work that you can't afford to go to so your colleagues think you are a misery. Don't get me started on secret Santa's, birthday collections, collections for new babies etc.
It is the constant drip drip drip of money out being more that the money coming in.

These days we are bombarded with higher expectations, so our perspective is different

Oh stop with this carry on @Wantitalltogoaway - the fact that families are rationing food to the extent parents are skipping meals to feed their kids, and having to decide between heating or eating, is barely touching the lowest of expectations.

You can compare it all you like to your grandparents 50 years ago, or 3rd world countries - it doesn't make it OK for people to have to exist in this way.

My advice is: go and buy something small, relatively inexpensive but utterly luxurious that you really want. Do this once a week for the next month. Do the same with recipes. Once a week buy what you actually want to eat, not what you should. You can live on beans the rest of the time. You can be clever about it if you want and go for yellow sticker fresh tuna steaks that need to be eaten that day, for example. But once a week pick up something because you want to eat it or to use/have it. And once a month have a family treat that does seem a bit frivolous. It will stop life from feeling so gruelling.

How will OP pay for this, @Autumnweddingguest?

Op, I'm so with you on the Dahl. I lost my job at the start of covid, and by the end of it my unemployment insurance had run out but people still weren't hiring. I lived off my tiny savings for six months with no benefits (I don't live in the UK).

DS and I lived on Red lentil and spinach Dahl nearly every day, served with variations of rice or homemade roti or naan when we could. I used to sometimes lose the will, and need to perk it up with a tin of coconut milk, or buy a jar of curry paste just to get through a weekend.

Bless my son who ate it up every day without complaint, but only admitted to a family friend last weekend that he was at his limit by the time I found a job.

I made a pan of it last night, nearly 3 years later I can face it, but, I had to put a sweet potato, and a red pepper in with the spinach to motivate myself for the week. (Tax bill comes out of my salary on Monday so it's a no spend month.)

I have perfected my "Linseneintopf" since covid, so I've also bunged a pack of Lidl mini weiners and green lentils into the trolley, so I can alternate my options.

But, anyway you serve it up, it's basically the gruel of the current century.

I hear you OP

Ive been living frugally for so long now its grinds me down as well. My case is due to mental health, I haven't been able to work full time for years and have tended to need to take low paid casual work on zero hours. I had an uplift of health and managed to secure a PT job paying above NMW last year which I loved, but had to leave last month because I couldn't afford to get there - was costing me £35 a week in fuel then parking on top. I do have a free senior travel card, but Im rural and theres no bloody public transport, I need to drive to the town. But I do use that to have free days out to the city. DH has had to go PT as well, his body is giving out on him and hes still 5 years of retirement. So Ive got a wee early morning job local, pays bare minimum, but £20 of fuel will last me 2 weeks

I shop at the discounters, Any meat or fish is Yellow stickered - Lidl are very good for the 40 or 50% reductions and sometimes I get lucky and pick up stuff for pennies. Whatever it is I buy it and freeze it. Right now I have a drawer full of fish of some description or another waiting its day

Sunday dinner this week is a pork fillet - reduced to £2. It says feeds two - it will have to feed four - 2 of us x 2. And thats what all our meals are like, half portions of meat, rubber bloody chicken, stews and curries cooked in the slow cooker with more veg then meat and now more often then not the veg is frozen as fresh is just getting too bloody expensive. 60p for a turnip the size of a tennis ball? Was ruddy pig feed when I was young !!!

When Im home during the day, its a dressing gown over my clothes rather then put the heating on.

Clothes are charity shop.

Its the time everything takes when you are watching every penny. Id love to just go to one shop and get what I need, but I cant because this shop is too expensive for everything and that shop down the road has that half the price. And one charity shop wont have what I need, so I have to hoke about all 6 in the town to hopefully get. And whilst Im doing the charity shops I might as well dander about all the local spars and look in their reduced sections - pays off, yesterday I got butter for 20p

I know I have 7 more years of this before I hit retirement and then with us both getting state pension, and the small private pension I already have, we will be able to relax the purse strings

I hear you OP. There's not having enough money,then the worry of not having enough money, then the relentless grind of trying to manage on not enough money. It's the longevity that's the killer. On and on and on. We were doing great, then OH lost his job. That was two years ago. He does some short contract jobs but there's no security. I was in celebratory mood this morning because I worked out that our last shop had made 17 meals rather than the 14 I had planned. Two years ago I wouldn't have been thinking about food shopping at all. It's a fucking good job we like baked potatoes. Hugs and good luck.

I know how you feel op.

After years of scrimping, keeping food costs down and not having a holiday because I knew I needed a new roof, I finally paid for the roof last year, and DS and I had a week in Portugal this July after his gcses. Bliss. Two days after I got back to work I was made redundant completely out of the blue.

Then eight weeks of job search. Back to sticking the hoover head back together with insulation tape 🙄, and not replacing my winter boots that split. Using the time between interviews to make blackberry jam, chilli sauce and pickles, and slicing and freezing apples from the garden, because it'll cut food costs this winter.

Now I have a brilliant new job but it's office based and I've worked from home for 4 years, so I need tidy winter clothes.

I am reasonably well paid. I have in-demand skills. A good degree. My mortgage is small. We should be comfortable. I am not miserable, we have a good life. I am determinedly optimistic.

But there's always something. DS needed a £90 scientific calculator and £100 of text books for his a'levels. My brake pads need replacing next month. Then Christmas, which I don't go overboard on. Cook everything from scratch.

It does feel like a treadmill sometimes. For me, being single is the issue. Society is priced for two-income households.