To think it's cruel to enter your child for nine 11+ exams?

[48wheaties]

Seen the news article about the child from Isle of Wight who passed nine 11+ exams in various counties all over the country. I think it's unkind to put a child through that. Yes, he's a bright boy, but what are the parents thinking? And no, I dont know them personally. (Runs for cover)

She lied 😂

So passmark could be 210 but entry is 370 😂

Not sure what you mean. The schools near me have around 1,800 entrants for 200 places. The child may pass and achieve the (age adjusted) cut-off score but still not get because the lowest place offered would be higher than their mark.

Ok.

You read the article to be able to quote from it but missed the photo of his sister and think the mother might be continuing her job at the IoW hospital from Gloucester?

The Bucks pass mark has always been 121. However this is a standardised mark - if you add a lot of high scoring exam tourists into the mix it will push the average raw score up, therefore pushing the (raw score) pass mark up. This is why exam tourists who are never in with a chance of getting a place in Bucks are a bad thing for local children. It's purely for boasting rights, exam practice, or they haven't read the admissions criteria

Tiffin hasn’t had its second round tests yet and in any case you don’t find out if you’re in until NOD. Same with Sutton, you find out if you are eligible to put the school on your CAF but not if you’ve managed to get a place until NOD. So some slightly creative reporting there.

@HaveYouSeenRain Downloading online resources can also put lots of pressure on kids. It's not how you do it but the amount of extra time it takes. This isn't about who values education more, many who send kids to state school also value education btw. It's the atmosphere of extreme competitiveness surrounding the entrance exams that those parents have created. 11+ parent groups are also an example of this. I know many parents who were totally put off by this pressure. It becomes almost cult like.

Yes, this explains it perfectly.

Bucks grammar schools have decided they want to cater for local children and therefore have catchment area rules which mean you have to be living in a catchment area before you take the 11+ transfer test to access those schools.

Wherever you live, you can take the Bucks 11+, but however high your raw score is, you won't be given a place. So if, say, 5 children from miles outside catchment area take the test and score over 121, that means 5 children inside the catchment area who scored (most likely) 120 have to go through the stress of a review panel or an appeal.

Parents who live, say, on the Isle of Wight and put their child in for the Bucks 11+ either haven't bothered to take a few minutes to read up on the eligibility criteria or have and don't care, which makes them selfish twats.

But then the problem lies with the school. Why do they allow exam tourists?

Each family has to decide for themselves what’s right for them and their child. Pressure is part of life and the Uk education system. it’s much harder here to get into university and certain courses than in my home country for example.

it is possible to pass 11+ without paying for tutoring.

are there no hospitals in Gloucester 😂
the article I read didn’t have a photo with his sister.
anything else?

@AquaPeer you are absolutely right.

@Porridgeislife I don't think you understand how the marking is done and the implications of 'clever out of towners' have on driving up the 121 pass mark. It's an age-standardised score with flattened bell curve. They work out a finite number of how many DC can pass with 121

The data is here for 2023. https://www.thebucksgrammarschools.org/_files/ugd/ab3fe9_8eaeaee6ab8a4e718b716cd05339c026.pdf
As you can see there were 1585 Bucks students who achieved 121+ out of 5684.

You will also see that 670 London students got 121+ out of 1093. Out of 670 students who passed only 13 got places at a Bucks grammar school. https://www.thebucksgrammarschools.org/_files/ugd/ab3fe9_b24167d996ba4b0f91fca72fdd4ea6b8.pdf

That means 657 'local' students could have potentially passed had those students not bumped up the scoring.
Local students who just missed out will now have to go through a review process which doesn't conclude until March which means they are in limbo for circa 6 months.

And ALL of this could be avoided if the parents just read the admissions criteria - the first one being you have to live in catchment by the 1st Sept BEFORE you take the test. It's so shit for the local DC that have scored 118-120

This thread makes me so glad our area doesn't have grammar schools, I have no idea where they do but I'm assuming down south. I couldn't be dealing with this much pressure on kids at 10 years old!

Weirdest thing about this story is that the article reads exactly like a press release (eg a story the family wrote and issued to the media themselves) who would do that?!

Assuming that more study was done than if just one or two tests, what was this at the expense of? Was the child missing out on non-academic parts of schooling, sport or something else?

In fairness, that means absolutely nothing when nobody finds out their places until March 3rd. Somebody who has applied to several grammar schools still only gets one offer at the same time as somebody who has applied to just one or none at all. It's the whole reason the iteration process starts at the LA in mid January.

@HaveYouSeenRain of course I agree pressure is a part of life, my DS both play football competitively and it's all about being the best at this stage or you're out. It's more the culture the grammar system has created and this has mainly been fostered by parents. I know some mums whose children didn't pass and their social circle is suddenly split in that area. I know quite a few parents who have say theirs in exams and the past two years they've talked of nothing but 11+, even talking down state schools to the parents whose kids go there. It's like they have no social awareness of anything else going on in life or the effect their comments make on others. I would never say to other parents whose kids play in lower football leagues, that those leagues are rubbish and I would be appalled if my son played in them. This is what I have first hand experienced. The snobbery is off the scale.

The article suggests this boy does lots of other stuff.
11+ type tests shouldn't take a lot of 'study', they do require a bit of practice. A few 'bond books' during the summer hols before year 6.
I've no idea what tutoring for them from younger ages involves.

Agree - we aren’t in a grammar area but that’s one of many reasons we didn’t consider private school for DS.

He’s bright (exceeding all areas, top 2 in his class) but hugely anxious and perfectionist, and works himself into a huge stress even over the weekly spelling test, I shudder to think how big a meltdown we’d have over revising for an entrance exam. Even the sats are going to be a nightmare, and they don’t actually matter.

@NeverDropYourMooncup (love this name)

But surely if you are an eager parent who wants to give their bright child as many options as possible you would look at the admissions criteria?!
You would see that you have to live in Bucks before you take the exam, otherwise you would have to move by April to literally next door to your preferred school and hope you get in on the second round round bun fight. Highly risky.

Surely you would say, don't do Bucks but do the Berks 11+ which is super selective. I just don't understand parents who would put this added workload for literally zero gain whilst other local DC suffer

Some kids would want to do it and in case it’s not an issue, others it’ll be parental pressure which is.

“Few bond books during the summer hols before year 6” wouldn’t stand a chance at a super selective.

grammar schools or selective state schools aren’t all the same. Some are more competitive than others.

@TerribleGardener - agree with this completely- maybe it’s to get traffic to his YouTube channel which is mentioned?

local news on the IOW is truly awful so it wouldnt surprise me if it were a story planted by the parents

No, it doesn't.

Because the right to sit 11+ exams, wherever you happen to live, is enshrined in law. It's called the Greenwich Judgment (1990).

So schools/local authorities cannot make rules about who sit the test, but can make rules around eligibility for those who pass the test. Hope that makes sense.

I'd say if you can pass one then they're all very similar. I had to do five and I'm not very academic, though I had a tutor specifically to train me in how to pass them. It seemed alright, I quite enjoyed doing them tbh! Weirdly as I then left school at 16 having been pretty poor later in my school career. I guess it's like a hobby almost? 11 seems a lot though. Maybe the parents thought the 11 plus refers to the number of exams they must sit? 🤣
It seems odd to make them do exams for schools all over the country though. Unless it's boarding schools. They should go to school fairly close to home if possible in my view.

Showa grammar provision needs to be universal or not at all.