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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

OP posts:
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8
SerendipityJane · 28/10/2024 14:50

Hatfullofwillow · 28/10/2024 14:45

Or you have someone claiming to have legitimate concerns, including the lump of labour fallacy, or claiming immigrants are mostly low skilled (when the opposite is true vs the native population). Or that they're an economic drain, when young men especially (the ones they tend to focus on) are obviously the opposite. By definition these aren't legitimate concerns, because they're false.

You could possibly argue that immigration puts pressure on housing & services, but that would be alleviated with a wider distribution of immigrants and is a wider problem resulting from decades of policy decisions.

Then we're left with the cultural impact, which although certainly real and contentious, has the discussion driven & exaggerated largely by reactionary politicians, media owners & the far right.

Not quite sure why I have been so kindly quoted by someone who seems to agree with me. Admittedly in a slightly different tone.

Locutus2000 · 28/10/2024 14:56

1dayatatime · 28/10/2024 10:22

@SerendipityJane

"You can excuse the less educated when they educate themselves - by whatever ways there are availble to them. Which is commendable.

However, if you are less educated and choose to stay that way, then you are thick."

That's a bit harsh- not everyone has the ability to put together well structured, eloquent and logical arguments as this thread has demonstrated.

But that doesn't mean that there aren't valid concerns on both sides of the debate.

not everyone has the ability to put together well structured, eloquent and logical arguments as this thread has demonstrated.

You said it. People are not disagreeing with you because they are of inferior intellect and unable to understand your argument.

OP posts:
Mebebecat · 28/10/2024 15:01

Gosh. So much hate on this thread towards the poor, the uneducated and the disadvantaged. These people who have a vote in the same way everyone else does. The Tommy Robinson/Nigel Farage/Trump/populist parties are in ascendancy just about everywhere in the western world. Where do you honestly think this is going to end up??
Stop the fuck 'othering' these people. Has shouting at people and writing hurty words on Mumsnet every caused even one of them to change their minds??
You may have to get your hands dirty, and God knows what you think you may catch from them but listen and engage.

VimtoVimto · 28/10/2024 15:15

The trouble is listening and engaging doesn’t work. I tried it pre and post the Brexit referendum trying to post reasoned arguments with easily verified sources yet I just got called a sheep.

username1478 · 28/10/2024 15:27

Mebebecat · 28/10/2024 15:01

Gosh. So much hate on this thread towards the poor, the uneducated and the disadvantaged. These people who have a vote in the same way everyone else does. The Tommy Robinson/Nigel Farage/Trump/populist parties are in ascendancy just about everywhere in the western world. Where do you honestly think this is going to end up??
Stop the fuck 'othering' these people. Has shouting at people and writing hurty words on Mumsnet every caused even one of them to change their minds??
You may have to get your hands dirty, and God knows what you think you may catch from them but listen and engage.

Please don't associate decent people who happen to be poor, disadvantaged or uneducated with Tommy Robinson.

It's pretty obvious that he is not receiving funding from poor people. He represents a very vocal minority who live in an online echo chamber.

Farage wasn't voted for by the great unwashed , he was voted for by ex Tories who don't care about the disadvantaged. If Robinson cared about the disadvantaged he wouldn't be doing time for mercilessly hounding a refugee.

sprigatito · 28/10/2024 15:28

Mebebecat · 28/10/2024 15:01

Gosh. So much hate on this thread towards the poor, the uneducated and the disadvantaged. These people who have a vote in the same way everyone else does. The Tommy Robinson/Nigel Farage/Trump/populist parties are in ascendancy just about everywhere in the western world. Where do you honestly think this is going to end up??
Stop the fuck 'othering' these people. Has shouting at people and writing hurty words on Mumsnet every caused even one of them to change their minds??
You may have to get your hands dirty, and God knows what you think you may catch from them but listen and engage.

lol at this post opening with "gosh". Nobody is fooled.

newnamethanks · 28/10/2024 15:35

Sadly, mebebecat, the believers are in a cult and many have been indoctrinated beyond reach. Listening and engaging is not really possible. It's very worrying, especially given Trump is busy channeling 1930s fascist dictators to the delight of his fans. They really don't know what they're asking for. We had better all hope that they don't get it.

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/10/2024 16:39

Mebebecat · 28/10/2024 15:01

Gosh. So much hate on this thread towards the poor, the uneducated and the disadvantaged. These people who have a vote in the same way everyone else does. The Tommy Robinson/Nigel Farage/Trump/populist parties are in ascendancy just about everywhere in the western world. Where do you honestly think this is going to end up??
Stop the fuck 'othering' these people. Has shouting at people and writing hurty words on Mumsnet every caused even one of them to change their minds??
You may have to get your hands dirty, and God knows what you think you may catch from them but listen and engage.

You can get in the bin if you think that because I am poor and disadvantaged I support thon grifting hate monger! He doesn't represent me or anyone like me, no matter how "uneducated". Uneducated doesn't mean stupid you know.Hmm

Tommy Robinson is an EU citizen who lives in Spain. He exploits UK citizens, he costs us taxpayer's money and laughs all the way to the bank. He's nothing but scum!Angry

SinnerBoy · 28/10/2024 17:19

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 10:31

So you know very little of the abhorrent person but you are still posting in his defence?

I just didn't know about him having a different name in his Irish passport. I've read different publications reports on him and his ramblings, as well as his court cases. I even started watching some of his videos, but I couldn't take it.

I know enough to be able to criticise him.

SinnerBoy · 28/10/2024 17:23

Locutus2000 · Today 14:38

Got my wish, finally.
Not that it will bother his supporters one bit.

Oh dear, poor Timmy. He'll be off to an all Muslim jail again. To be murdered again...

He could have avoided it, by simply not repeating his slanders and more so, not making a film repeating them and posting it online. He could, despite all that, have had a reduced sentence by taking it down, but no, he wants to go to prison. He wants to pretend that he's a free speech martyr.

AdviceNeeded2024 · 28/10/2024 17:34

A ‘legal fund’ was set up this afternoon for him asking for donations, it’s already at just over £100k… how?!

SerendipityJane · 28/10/2024 17:37

AdviceNeeded2024 · 28/10/2024 17:34

A ‘legal fund’ was set up this afternoon for him asking for donations, it’s already at just over £100k… how?!

A few Russians lose their benefits maybe ?

browserintobuyer · 28/10/2024 17:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Hoppinggreen · 28/10/2024 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Really? Source please
And apologies for spelling Tommeh wrong - its actually spelt S T E P H E N

Hatfullofwillow · 28/10/2024 18:02

SerendipityJane · 28/10/2024 14:50

Not quite sure why I have been so kindly quoted by someone who seems to agree with me. Admittedly in a slightly different tone.

Because I was agreeing with you, but adding a bit. Apologies

Locutus2000 · 28/10/2024 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Plus why misspelling of "Tommy", I don't see the significance?

It's an observation of his supporters generally not being the best educated when it comes to spelling and punctuation. Or anything else.

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 28/10/2024 18:19

AdviceNeeded2024 · 28/10/2024 17:34

A ‘legal fund’ was set up this afternoon for him asking for donations, it’s already at just over £100k… how?!

Kerching.🤑🤑🤑

Hoppinggreen · 28/10/2024 18:21

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/10/2024 18:19

Kerching.🤑🤑🤑

I doubt its made up of 50p's his more obvious supporters have found down the back of the sofa.
There is some serious and rather sinister money behind YL

Boomer55 · 28/10/2024 18:23

AdviceNeeded2024 · 28/10/2024 17:34

A ‘legal fund’ was set up this afternoon for him asking for donations, it’s already at just over £100k… how?!

Like most of these funding sites, people are sending donations. He has his supporters. He, apparantly, has millions of followers on one of the sites. 🤷‍♀️

AdviceNeeded2024 · 28/10/2024 18:23

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/10/2024 18:19

Kerching.🤑🤑🤑

They are aiming to raise £125k. I wish someone would crowd fund me £100k in a few hours 😩

Locutus2000 · 28/10/2024 18:33

Hoppinggreen · 28/10/2024 18:21

I doubt its made up of 50p's his more obvious supporters have found down the back of the sofa.
There is some serious and rather sinister money behind YL

There is some serious and rather sinister money behind YL

There really is. Apologies for a DM link.

Why hatemonger Tommy Robinson is being funded by billionaires? 

Fresh out of jail, Tommy Robinson's being hailed a hero by the far-Right. And, in a sinister twist his lavish lifestyle is being bankrolled by a flood of foreign money.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6049325/GUY-ADAMS-asks-British-hatemonger-Tommy-Robinson-funded-American-billionaires.html

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 28/10/2024 19:02

Hoppinggreen · Today 17:51

And apologies for spelling Tommeh wrong - its actually spelt S T E P H E N

Yes, he's not really called Timmy Robertson, it's Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon. The little chump.

TooBigForMyBoots · 28/10/2024 19:30

What does he need a "legal fund" for? He pleaded Guilty.Confused

SinnerBoy · 28/10/2024 19:40

The mugs probably don't understand that. Have a look at the comments on the Daily Mail!

username1478 · 28/10/2024 20:17

SinnerBoy · 28/10/2024 19:40

The mugs probably don't understand that. Have a look at the comments on the Daily Mail!

I have, it's quite sad. He's a patriot. A man of the people. A rival to Starmer. A political prisoner.

One wag said that he was separated from other prisoners because his crying would keep them awake.