If you own a second home how do you get treated by locals?

[Poiul]

Aware of the feelings towards second home owners on mumsnet. Does that contempt translate into real life is my question.

The adjoining council to us has increased council tax by 150%. In a meeting this week on second homes and empty homes.

The council to the west of us want to quadruple the council tax for second homes

It's getting interesting here. We'll have to see.

I lived next to a second home owner for years, they were lovely. They’d come down once a month or so for weekends and to be honest it was fabulous because it was always great to see them but we also had the freedom of not having to worry about much noise we made!

Vast generalisation incoming: the Cornwall locals vs Londoners account for most of it.
Weirdly, most Londoners don’t hold it against the huge number of foreign nationals who purchase (second, third, tenth) homes there, thereby pushing homeownership in the capital outside the reach of all but the wealthiest.

I bought a flat in my home town so that when we went back to visit my family we wouldn’t be stepping on their toes every time. This is a part of the UK that is in no way a tourist destination or in any way desirable. Think ‘most deprived cities in the UK’.

I had vague plans to either pass it on to my ageing parents as their current home is far too big for them, or to my son when we are gone so that he retains his connection to ‘home’ (we’ve moved about a lot - can’t be helped, it’s just how it’s been). It’s never been seen as an investment and I’ve never wanted to make a profit of any sort.

In 7 or 8 years time I’ll be paying at least 1200 a month in council tax. I can’t afford that. To sell it I’d realistically have to have a new kitchen and bathroom put in. I can’t afford to do that. To rent it out I’d have to do the same. If I sell I’m going to be absolutely whacked by the tax authorities in my country of residence even if it sells for less than I paid for it, so I’m going to be much worse off.

I want to appeal it with the council but I’m very aware that it sounds like an incredibly tone deaf thing to do given that I could afford to buy in the first place. At the same time it feels like I’m being punished for a problem (housing shortage and locals being priced out) that is non existent in the area in question. If I were to sell that flat it would be most likely to a landlord and then rented out….. probably to someone not paying any council tax at all, or at a discount.

Ive had so many sleepless nights over this and I don’t see a way out that isn’t going to leave me significantly worse off.

So yeah, OP. I’d be looking at council tax rates.

Agree totally ! It's a dreadful struggle affording to live in London but we don't seem to moan about it quite so much .

Average house prices in Cornwall are over 10 times average salaries. Properties which could be used for long term rentals to families are sitting empty of months at a time until the emmets open them up again at Easter & then complain about not being able to find anyone to install a charging point for their Tesla.

Treliske Hospital can't cope with the skewed demographics of an elderly population of those who retired down here alongside the holiday makers in the summer. Beds are blocked because there's not enough provision for social care. Locals are expected to be grateful to have NMW jobs in the care sector or hospitality.

When we had a property for sale we refused to sell to couples from up country claiming they would definitely be moving to our village. It was so obvious it would be listed on Air BnB within months. We took the hit and sold to a local family for far less than we could have got, but our village still has around 90% who live there permanently. It would be a far different mix a few miles away on the coast.

It depends where you get the second home doesn't it - needs to be in a place where you're not pricing locals out of small communities. Cornwall sounds like a place to avoid! - sad about the people who were not being told about the tree fallen on their house. We've heard the same from friends who do have a second home in Cornwall - they are aware of the attitude but in fact they are well liked as they genuinely do support the economy and spend a lot of time there (and are diplomatic!).

Our main home may seem like a second home to some, but we libe in work accommodation.

I know lots of jobs where people are away from their main home during the week/s so how can the locals differentiate?

My father died and left us some money in 2020. He was a practical man and he built his own home at the age of 70. My sisters and I all used our inheritance to build from scratch or renovate rundown property. My dad would have preferred that to sticking it in the bank.
We bought a cottage in a remote village in the Highlands that we used to holiday in. We can see my grandmother’s house from there so there is a family connection. The cottage had been uninhabited for five years. Nothing had been done to it for more than 40 years. It was on the market for many months.
We completely gutted it, renovated it and spent £100k doing it up. We used local tradesmen and bought local supplies. Kitchen was made locally. Stove was supplied and installed by a local firm. Damp proof course, roof work etc we’re all local firms.
I did worry about the attitude of the community but everyone has been really friendly. No one locally was prepared to take on the project. We’ve made great friends in the village. We use the local shop, we eat out in the local restaurants. We invite friends to stay. We don’t rent it out. We are there whenever we can be all year round. It’s been such a fantastic project to be involved with. it’s brought so much joy.
It’s not a business but I am concerned at the way property businesses in Scotland in general are seen to be somewhat immoral. The depopulation of the Highlands is a big issue but a lack of affordable housing is only part of the story. Poor transport links, high fuel costs, the ferry scandal, a lack of jobs and investment, the decision to stop investment in oil and gas - a major sector of the Scottish economy. The closure of maternity services and local hospitals and a policy of concentrating resources in large urban centres in the central belt all play a part.
Im not sure what the answer is but someone needs to invest in derelict properties and remote communities.

Some councils are offering grants for kitchens, bathrooms, boilers, up to 30k here if you then sign it over to them on a 20 year lease. They will pay you market rent and handle everything including repairs.

It's a new form of social housing.

This is our experience locally too.

No one is stopping you from complaining about second home owners too. None of us are big fans of Russian oligarchs.

Do you think they would have stayed? Much of Europe has the same problem, but where houses aren’t bought as holiday homes, they become derelict. Good internet infrastructure has started to make it possible to get other jobs in these remote places, but many still don’t have that. Italy is full of empty villages and they can’t give them away to people who will live there. Not even for €1.

Yes, second home ownership can be a problem anywhere. The higher the proportion of second homes the worse the problem.

What part of Wales, North? I live in Pembrokeshire and have never seen any nastiness to second home owners. And you really don't need to speak Welsh, it's rarely spoken where I live.

I own a second home, which has been in our family for over 200 years, I would never air b n b it, or let it out as a holiday home. Lots of family live in the same area and many have stayed in the property as a bridge to buying there own place. My Grandma and great grandma and great great grandma were born there and it can never be left to a male, so will go to my niece when I pop off this mortal coil. We have no hostility from neighbours, mind you its on a substantial piece of land, but mainly because they know the family and I have been visiting since a baby.
It has so many clauses on it, so hopefully will be safe for many years to come.

I haven't got a second home but if I could afford it and wanted it then I would without a second thought.

Who cares what neighbours think? This whole idea of disgruntled locals also irritates me. No one is forcing them to sell their homes to Londoners for ££££; why don't they sell it to a young local couple for £? Funnily enough, they don't.

Ridiculous hypocrisy. You don't own Cornwall or The Lake District just because you happened to be born there.

We have a place In a little village in France everyone is lovely, we’ll we think they? are we hardly speak any French 🤷🏼‍♀️😂

I certainly wouldn't be taking in parcels for a neighbour who used it as a second home! They could do one. I can barely afford the one I have. Call it jealousy, I don't care but I would not be 'keeping and eye' on your second home for you.

@Freysimo West Wales. Much higher Welsh speaking and schools are Welsh speaking too.

Lots of the council tax rises just mean houses will be sold. If they have to be reduced substantially I’m sure some will be happy but this will lead to all houses vastly reducing in price. Inevitably negative equity will follow for locals who have bought.

Im also interested that people call themselves local after 40 years. I’m local in my area. Many many generations of my family on both sides come from here. Local from 1984 is not local.

I get that holiday homes don’t use schools but surely everyone would rather GPs were not overwhelmed? Or hospitals? Apart from
this, holiday makers spend money. Someone said why not use hotels? Good question. I do. All around the world. Other people like to stay in my house. From what I can see the school is bouyant and so is the village with lots going on.

We had a problem a few years ago with a very long standing friend. He joined a “stay away from Cornwall” group on Facebook and was very vocal about second homes . He is Irish. Been in Cornwall for 15 years and they inherited their house. My DH helped him through a very complex building project. We stayed in our house and DH helped him with structural engineering designs. In return we were vilified for being there. DH was very upset and we had to end the friendship.

How does the GP thing work? I thought you could only register where you live, not where you go on holiday.

You can register as a temporary patient. Depends on the practice how long they'll have you for.

I'm registered near my work as temporary but have used them for years.

Not registered where our home is as we're only there at weekends.

One thing we need to think about is the enormously increased cost of providing services in rural areas.

Even things like bin collection cost far more in the countryside. Things like adult social care, hospital services and public transport for those who age out of driving, become horribly, horribly expensive to provide in the countryside - bankruptcy-inducing for local governments, actually. Rural buses are massively loss-making and cost a fortune. Care workers have to spend long periods of time dragging around to this place and that, meaning that you require huge workforces to deal with a relatively small population (whereas when elderly people live in, say, retirement flats in time, you can use warden control system to keep people independent for longer, and a careworker can nip round and help a whole bunch of people in the same flat very quickly).

Holiday home owners don't make much call on these services, for obvious reasons. Long-term "generationally rural" communities do make some call on these services of course, but it really helps that younger members of communities/extended families can help the elders out; for example, it matters less if the bus service isn't great if the younger members of the community can give lifts to the elders and pick up their shopping for them etc.

The real danger point comes when communities become hollowed out by retirees who have moved in from outside,or when nearly all the homes get bought up by second-home owners, leaving a rump of "local" elderly people who are now alone with no younger "locals" to support them. These people will make substantial demands on local services (especially social care and needing things like lots of buses) which will be all the greater if they do not have local extended family or strong local networks to help them. This is going to become a serious issue going forward if we are not careful.

I can already hear the whinging of elderly voters who have retired to the countryside for lifestyle reasons: "I can't drive any more! The council needs to run more buses! Why aren't they providing more buses?" Because there is no fucking money, Susan. Did you not think about this before retiring to a pretty village?

This kind of thing is why we should be cautious about laissez-faire attitudes towards relocation and demographics - "Everyone has the right to live where they want to! Nobody owns a village in the Lake District!" Yes, but, do we want people living full-time in the Lake District villages at all? If so, it's in everyone's interest to ensure that there are communities with people of many different ages (including the young) and strong social/family networks, to ensure that people have the community spirit and physical ability to help each other out and manage the challenges of rural life together. Otherwise, we are going to paying eye-popping costs for this in the near future.

I think the "extra demand on GPs" thing is not talking so much about elderly second-home-owners, but talking more about people who retire to "pretty villages" full time.

In some Welsh villages like Tenby, the council has put a big tax on second home ownership, but one unintended side effect is that this has greatly increased the number of retirees who have moved to these villages full-time, meaning that suddenly the local GP is under a lot of pressure. And they don't spend anywhere near as much as holidaymakers do!

There is a need for a national conversation about what to do with these pretty rural areas. My own suggestion would be, build more housing (and if "not building on green areas" is a priority, maybe have a conversation about taller and denser housing - things like mid-rise, pretty flats with decorative touches that would blend in with the old local buildings could work?), require second-homes to be occupied most of the year (ie, if you own a second home, you will need to get it registered and licensed as a BnB and get it let out year-round) and build some facilities which ensure year-round usage of the areas - indoor swimming pools and spas, cultural facilities and so on, so that the place does end up a ghost town other than July and August.

Pembrokeshire County Council (responsible for Tenby) has recently voted to reduce second home council tax premium from 200% to 150% from next April.