If you own a second home how do you get treated by locals?

[Poiul]

Aware of the feelings towards second home owners on mumsnet. Does that contempt translate into real life is my question.

I'm not so familiar with the situation in Canada, but I am guessing that it is the norm to build your own cabin or buy one that has been purpose-built for tourism by someone else.

I think that (in part, perhaps, because Canada is so thinly populated) there is likely to be more leeway about self-building your own holiday home in the Canadian countryside, whereas British planning laws make this really difficult. So, people can add to the existing housing stock rather than fighting with locals over a limited stock. I think that makes a massive difference.

The UK, on the other hand, is a fairly densely populated country, and there is concern about concreting over more of an island that is already somewhat nature depleted, which in part explains the slightly nutty planning laws.

An alternative, of course, would be to build taller buildings, and shift towards things like mid-rise apartments in popular areas. But the British have never been very keen on flats, and there is a feeling that areas like the Lake District and Cornish fishing villages are supposed to "look nice and old fashioned" with no tall buildings. If you can't build up OR out, that's going to be pretty limited. Unless people go Hobbit-style and start constructing underground dwellings (hmm, maybe that'll be the next thing...?)

There is also the British attachment to old buildings - a lot of people going to Cornwall probably insist on an old cottage for its olde world charm. For obvious reasons, there is only a limited stock of these. In Canada, for obvious reasons, there aren't many buildings hundreds of years old so I am guessing the issue does not come up - holiday homes will usually be newly-built, wooden structures.

As someone who is born and bred in an area of outstanding natural beauty I believe second home ownership now needs to be banned or very strictly monitored because locals like me cannot afford to buy and rent In the area where we were brought up and raised.

But people who are born and raised in London are told to suck it up and move out when talking about exactly the same problem.

@CitrineRaindropPhoenix agree, and it’s not just London! I couldn’t have afforded even a one bed flat in my home town when I started work, I had to move really quite far away and my home town isn’t a tourist town. Plus, that was almost 30 years ago, so it has always been an issue.
And I’m not so sure that buying a “wooden chalet” is better for the community. I had this discussion with a friend who bought one when I bought my house. She claimed I was “selfish”. But, as I pointed out to her, we paid second home stamp duty, she did not. We pay council tax (double as of next April) she does not. We have a weekly cleaner and a window cleaner, and gardener and we used local trades to renovate the property. She did not. We never get a supermarket delivery, we use the local shops, she does not. Plus we are there around half the week, every week, using local restaurants and cafes and the one local taxi driver, She is not.
Our house wouldn’t have been a first time buyers house anyway plus, we told the sellers (it went to BaF) that it would be a second home and they sold it to us.
I do agree that if people are buying second homes and never using them that it detrimental to the community but how you actually police that I don’t know.

A friend has sold in Wales as he didn’t speak Welsh and felt uncomfortable. It rather marks you out as not a local.

How very dare they speak their own language in their own village. So rude. Did your friend make any attempt to learn at least some basic Welsh?

I live in Cornwall. There isn't enough housing for locals- don't buy in an area there's a shortage and then hardly use it.

Honest answer.
It's not contempt.
It's genuine frustration that some locals cannot get one place to call home, yet some people get a spare one (or more).
It doesn't justify nastiness but it does justify not being particularly enthusiastic about your presence.

Last time Mumsnet had this conversation about Cornwall I had a look on Rightmove. Port Issac, 2 bedroom cottage for sale advertised as an Ideal Airbnb, £1,250000. Thats way out of most locals reach as a starter home.

Where I am the council tax is being quadrupled. Some are selling up but they're still too expensive for local folks. The school closed down last year there's no young families these days.

Some of our villages on the coast are empty in the winter. Shops, cafes, pubs, all close down.

I didn't read any implied criticism of the locals for speaking their language. The pp was describing that an inability to converse in that language was a barrier to integration.
I perceive no criticism in that factual statement. If the incomer objected and had demanded they all stated speaking in English I could see where you're coming from.
But they accepted the situation and bowed out.

(And even if you learn some basic level of language you can't have a natter in the pub with it, so it isn't going to solve the 'stand out like a sore thumb effect'.)

Nobody 'needs' a second home, it is selfish and unneccessary.
The decimation of rural villages due to huge amount of second homes being owned is heartbreaking.
Elderly people isolated as amenities disappear in villages they've lived in for 60/70 years, all so some arrogant person can roll up a few times a year to their 'second home'
Stay in a hotel/cabin, you clearly aren't skint!

And I’m not so sure that buying a “wooden chalet” is better for the community. I had this discussion with a friend who bought one when I bought my house. She claimed I was “selfish”. But, as I pointed out to her, we paid second home stamp duty, she did not. We pay council tax (double as of next April) she does not. We have a weekly cleaner and a window cleaner, and gardener and we used local trades to renovate the property. She did not. We never get a supermarket delivery, we use the local shops, she does not. Plus we are there around half the week, every week, using local restaurants and cafes and the one local taxi driver, She is not.

Most of those differences aren't anything to do with the choice of house vs chalet, though; they are just personal differences between you and your friend. Someone could own a chalet and be just as likely to use local trades to renovate (in fact, they'd probably use local trades to build it as well), use the local shops, use a cleaner etc. And having more basic cooking facilities in the chalet and less space would probably result in the holidaymaker spending more time doing things out of the home, like eating out.

I think people who build or buy chalets should pay some sort of local tax on them or similar surcharge, FWIW.

Fair enough. Bit of a knee jerk reaction on my part.

FWIW, I also think it's only fair to point out that a lot of locals in these areas fiercely oppose any attempts to build new housing.

Plans for houses on field for parking at Royal Cornwall Show | Falmouth Packet
Cornwall planning: Much-needed houses could prove to be 'very, very dangerous' - Cornwall Live
Residents elated as plans to build houses on former pub car park are refused | thepost.uk.com
Permission to build in Cornish hamlet refused
Cornwall hamlet residents say new homes would be 'catastrophic' - Cornwall Live

I live at completely the opposite end of the UK but understand many of the comments regarding the negative effects of holiday homes.

I don't see the point in holiday homes. Why spend all that money when you can stay in a beautiful hotel or lodge for a couple of weeks a year in varying locations?

Not to mention pricing the locals out.

It's amusing though that just because someone owns their little bit of land which their home is built on, and theyvwere botnbthere..(and some dont even have that if they rent) that they seem to think they own the town or village they live in. They don't. Anyone buying a second home there has an equal right to be there. The village dwellers pretend that their concern is due to their children being outpriced by the incomers, when the reality is theyve created their own little ghetto and just dont like outsiders. Sad really..

I live in a small town that is sought after by local cities especially after Covid. What annoys me and many other locals, is people outbidding other local people for properties to turn them into air bnb/holiday homes and not contributing to the community in anyway.
There are many young families who are not getting a chance to buy in their own town because of this.
Not that anyone would be rude to them but it is definitely spoken about negatively when there is yet another holiday home bought that sits empty and could do a family all year round that are part of the community.

We have a holiday home in the west of Ireland in an estate with a mixture of locals and second homers . TBH the locals prefer to buy out of the village in the countryside , it's a really nice community and most people get on very well, integrate use the local shop and pub and my daughter shares a house now with her friends from the village in the big city where they work now. Local school is thriving.

and they were born there

Not at all for my town- anyone moving in to live here and be part of the town is always welcomed where I live. I’d say about 70% are original outsiders and 30% actually born and grew up in the town. Many from over seas too, again who are welcome. It’s specifically holiday home and air bnb bought homes that piss people off ime

And what would the locals do? Your figures are for Cornwall as a whole, but look at the honey pot coastal areas. In those areas the local economy relies massively on tourism.

I can't imagine what would happen in my village. How cheap would housing have to be for someone working on minimum wage in a pub to afford a house? And when the pub they work in closes down what do they do then?

I was priced out of where I grew up 30 years ago. My siblings too- they live in the next town.

There is a road closure here which is effectively cutting us off from tourism until Christmas. Some local businesses say this will tip them over the edge after a poor summer season. The bad summer has left us with 3 empty shops and two closed down restaurants.

Its similar where we live, we have a summer house, the odd one is used as a permanent residence, but very very few, lots don’t even have mains electric.

When we lived in the UK we had a holiday home, it had a restrictive covenant that meant it couldn’t be used as a permanent dwelling, we also didn’t have neighbours as such.

We have two in a very popular tourist spot. One is long term rental the other is a holiday let. We use it as much as we can. I am well aware of the general unease some people have around this subject and I do understand. For me, that's why I don't have it empty for large chunks of time. If it's being used, it's helping us out and contributing to the local economy. Our neighbours are a mix of holiday home owners and locals, we rub along fine and have a Whatsapp group set up. I do think that unless you're planning to also holiday let it for significant periods of the year, this isn't a great idea as the rules around second homes and council tax are likely to change (as they have already been introduced in some parts of Wales).

The argument “it’s ok to have a big second home that a first time buyer couldn’t afford” is ridiculous. Smaller properties only become available when the current owners are able to move on to something larger. By taking that property from a family you are having a direct impact on the people trying to get on the property ladder. It’s such a disingenuous argument. We live in a flatted house conversion. The jump to owning our own house in this area is massive, especially with the increased interest rates. We are looking at starting a family and would love to have a spare room, but it feels impossible in our corner of Scotland. It grates me to see 3/4 bed houses in our village that are empty. The local nursery is shutting because there aren’t enough kids. As other posters have suggested, there are beautiful wooden chalets and static caravans nearby that don’t take away from local housing stock.

This is very true, but also complicated. That particular example is problematic due to the showground.

Often the planning has caveats for 'affordable' housing but it's still unaffordable for the local population who need homes. What we desperately need is places to rent at a reasonable rate.

But it goes both ways, the council approve some absolutely batshit stuff - by my house the council allowed a campsite to be put in next to a residential (the only part of the village with no holiday lets amazingly) estate overlooking our houses & gardens sending all the foot traffic down our road. We all objected, the AONB ppl told them no, Rural England told them no & they did it anyway. It's so inappropriate it beggars belief. So from May till October we've got the smell of campfires & ppl having lovely holidays out in the open right by our homes.

Had there been an application for social housing or housing for rental there I'd have written in wholehearted support!