to wonder why it's still considered ok to use terms that are offensive to disabled people?

[wannaBe]

because imo it isn't.

someone used the word "mong" on a thread today, and although they were pulled up by a couple of posters, that's it.

if it was a racist term it wouldn't be tolerated. so why any other offensive term? why?

And why do people still feel the need to use these terms?

someone used the word 'retarded' in a similar way today and i was so shocked NO one(whilst i was on) said a word!!!

Mong is as bad as spaz imo - DD came home from school and said it the other day - it isn't people being deliberately offensive - most of the time they just don't know that it is offensive and a quiet word is often enough to make them feel sufficiently embarrassed to never use it again - I told DD why it wasn't a nice way to desciribe someone and she has promised me she wil never do it again - its just education!

I will be careful not to use wheelchair bound in future as I am sure I have used it.

My own view on it all is it is ok if its done accidentally and we have all most probably done it accidentally, I know I have. Correcting someone quietly is good really, especially on a board like this because its not in the real world, at the school gates iykwim. If its done ina 'i am young and trendy' way I still correct it. I work as a weekend manager in retail store with a mainly youth/student workforce and I have pulled people up on using retard etc and even have gone as far as to say, would you call my dd a retard, because she is mentally retarded..... It is usually met with complete horror and never said again. They all behave for me But I just dont like the overuse

I still think maybe in private I do make fun sometimes, but its a joke on us. DD is like the pirate on the cravendale advert 'milk milk' and we joke its her. But its joke in a nice find way not a derogatory way. I am not sure that example makes sense....but someone somewhere might know what I mean

I think all famillies with SN kids do that don't they|? we certainly do

but no more than we tease ds2, although its tendencies to throw tantrums that we mostly josh him about

it's just what famillies do, hopefully in a secure enough setting that the kids know they're loved anyway so don't need to feel got at or vulnerable

I am so glad I have found like minded people it must be awful for some people to never know what they do/think/feel is normal. Thank god for mumsnet hey? despite all its faults!

oh I do take the piss out of my own disability as yurt/fio could probably testify. But it's one thing doing it yourself, but one never knoows other peoples' level of offence.

yes- we do joke about ds1's disability sometimes. But we love him. Usually about him sniffing people's bottoms. Or scenting places (he has to wee in every toilet in a new place before he'll relax )

anyone who is still using the word "mong" in the year 2008 is an ignorant, careless, thick person and mumsnet is wrong not to ban it.

But these words aren't tolerated by many people. Some people use these words because they are ignorant of the meaning or because they don't think it's that bad a word.

In either case, I think it's far better that someone points out why they find it offensive than having some out-and-out ban on words. I don't agree with banning at all.

Not read all the thread so probably adding nothing new, but i didn't know what it meant. Not something I'd use as I think it sounds horrible but I didn't know it was offensive in that sense.

I take the point that some people use it just to mean "stupid" and do not realise that it is short for "mongoloid" which is a very outdated and now offensive way of referring to a person with downs syndrome. I don't like blanket bans either, but I think this word ought to be clarified for the nasty term it is and people should be told quietly what it means. Otherwise I think language IS important in shaping attitudes and it creeps into an overall lack of respect. It's the same as people starting to use "autistic", even in reputable newspapers, to mean "useless emotionally". You see, it continues a prejudice just to use the word in that way, and as mum to one of the most loving children ever (who also happens to be autistic) I do think it needs to be nipped in the bud. We've worked so hard to get rid of racist language; to me, mong is just as bad. I also think that if you don't pull up teenagers or even younger kids on scornful words like this, they grow up thinking it's ok to take the piss out of people for things they can't help (ginger hair, glasses, disabilities, colour etc etc) and that doesn't help society as a whole. Sorry, I may sound over the top on this issue, but I have just been reading about the disabled man who has been killed and there was another story not so long ago about a disabled boy kicked to death by a feral pack of teenage boys. You have to start somewhere in changing prejudies, and language is not a bad place for that start.

I had a go at my teenage ds (who has Asperger syndrome) recently because he used the word m**g on facebook. I explained why people find it offensive and he insisted it's short for 'mongrel' and has nothing whatsoever to do with Down's syndrome. He's vehemently anti all forms of prejudice, especially as he's been on the receiving end many times, but he won't believe me about the origin of the term .

I think the word 'mong' is objectionable precisely because it takes a word (once) used to describe SN people and uses it to describe objectionable/stupid behaviour in NT people. Hard to see how this should not be derogatory- what you are saying is that people with Downs Syndrome are or look stupid.

There is always the possibility, though, that somebody very young or non-native may have missed the etymology of the word, though, and not realised it came from 'mongoloid'. I had never come across it before today.

Downs Syndrome, KerryMum

Dunno. And have always felt as a matter of common courtesy it's best to avoid wording that offends people.

I think that people usually don't mean offense when they use such words and are really just revealing their own ignorance. No point in jumping on them about it but politely suggesting they use a more appropriate term would be good. Whether a word is offensive or not is entirely subjective.

"I think the word 'mong' is objectionable precisely because it takes a word (once) used to describe SN people and uses it to describe objectionable/stupid behaviour in NT people. Hard to see how this should not be derogatory- what you are saying is that people with Downs Syndrome are or look stupid."

The word "paddy" is often used on MN to refer to temper tantrums. It seems to be an entirely acceptable usage here, and it shows how subjective these critisisms are because if you take the above, which I agree with, and substitute paddy for mong you can make the exact same argument.

I think the word 'paddy' is objectionable precisely because it takes a word (once) used to describe Irish people and uses it to describe objectionable/stupid behaviour. Hard to see how this should not be derogatory

When paddy for tantrum was discussed before I think it was found that it doesn't actually derive from paddy meaning Irish. It had a different derivation. It doesn't remotely offend my husband anyway (who is Irish) and who might be offended by being called a 'stupid paddy' for example.

Often people do use the word mong offensively. My friend had someone say "er yuk a Mong' on seeing her daughter (who doesn't have DS, but does have learning difficulties) or 2shoes' son who had to deal with someone calling his sister a mong yesterday.

Yurt, somebody said that but others claimed it was derived from Paddywhack. I don't think anyone proved their case but would be glad to be proved wrong. A quick google finds this definition"n "British English: A to Zed" by Norman W. Schur (Harper Perennial, New York, 1987): "paddy, n., tantrum. Inf. 'Paddywhack' is a variant. Paddy is a nickname for Padraig, which is old Irish for Patrick, and there are so many Patricks in Ireland that Patrick or Pat is usually the protagonist in Irish jokes. Apparently, Irish tempers are shorter than British ones, so somehow 'paddy' came to mean 'tantrum."

This thread shows that some people are offended by different words than others, just because some disability activists use the word "crip" does not mean that other people should not be annoyed if I start using it!

Agree that there will be a small minority who do use words like mong offensively - I am sorry your friend had to hear that. But usually people are just too ignorant to understand.

1. It is not a throwaway remark - it is an offensive term with a lot of negative and offensive connotations.

1. As the parent of a child with down syndrome I am gobsmacked at people who seem to think it is an acceptable word - especially cause it is in the dictionary.

1. I also find it not appropriate to refer to my child as a down syndrome child - she is a child first and foremost like any other child on the planet who just happens to have down syndrome. That condition is but a small part that makes up the wonderful little girl that she is.

1. bubbagirl looking at your definition - children and especially babies with down syndrome experience something called hypotonia - or low muscle tone- which means as babies they can be very floppy with little head control and so it seems the verb is meant to be a representation of that - so in essence making fun of something that really people with down syndrome have no control over.

kerrymum the term mong is short of mongoloid and people with down syndrome were often referred to as mongols or mongoloid due to their facial structure and eye shape.

Now when speaking about someone with down syndrome in a medical situation - they use the term down syndrome or even trisomy 21 which is the correct diagnostic term.

Yes I do make a deal about words - words can hurt, words can slice through your heart and cut you to your very core - they can build you up or tear you down. I prefer to have people around my daughter use terms that will affirm her and her self worth - not poke fun at things over which she has no control or use terms that are offensive and derogatory. If that makes me self congraulatory - well bloody good job I am looking out for her.

Sadly she has been born into a world where a surprising number of people see her as less than a person - even to the point that she should not have been born, see that one extra chromosome makes her less than the person next to her. IN a world that judges her by her condition not her potential. If I can change words and attitudes by challenging words and attitudes then I will still be doing it when I am 100 - if I live that long.