to wonder why it's still considered ok to use terms that are offensive to disabled people?

[wannaBe]

because imo it isn't.

someone used the word "mong" on a thread today, and although they were pulled up by a couple of posters, that's it.

if it was a racist term it wouldn't be tolerated. so why any other offensive term? why?

And why do people still feel the need to use these terms?

agonybeatle said it much better than me

We were actually musing about a very similar dilemma the other day, as my dh came home with a DVD copy of 'The Dambusters' and was happily watching it with ds (aged 8), having forgotten the pivotal role played by the ace pilot's black labrador named N*gger.

If that film were up for remake, there is no way it would be appropriate to retain that usage -- in 1943 it may have been no more inappropriate than to call a white dog Snowy, but now it clearly is. There's no way you could justify putting that in a film now, even if it was historically accurate.

Yes but its only a WORD. If there was more of an effort made to integrate disabled people in society, i think a lot of these words would lose their power, and good thing to. I find it horrifying that as a disabled woman, only 10% of 'my people' are in paid employment.

Years ago, my understanding was that 'Half-caste' was an okay description. It was then explained to me that this was offensive because it implied that someone was only 'half-formed' or somehow not made properly. I had genuinely not thought I was being offensive. I stopped using the phrase. Simple.

'But Graciefer, who decides? is this an entirely subjective thing, so if just one person is offended, thats enough? Isn't that a bit of a scary thought?'

Not really- because the use of the word has no reason. If the issue were - say- someone being offended by an opinion (ie freedom of speech) then the call for the removal would be worrying, but it is not. It is just a word that can be replaced with any of a thousand others.

As for the ignorance aspect- Ok, I can (personally) see that. ting is if I used a ohrase or word ofended people unwittingly I'd say sorry and not use it again. VS's point for example- probablys aid veg out a thousand times wiothout considering teh connotations, but having been amde aware will rethink.

why can't we all just be nice

Ok, at the risk of sounding offensive, but what the hell... if all you have ever done in your life to make a difference is congratulate yourself that you don't use certain words any more then... bully for you.

But surely words are one of the most powerful mediums possible to help change the way people think? I agree, of course that actions are vital and more understanding/integration is the key but the language we use to describe and tunk about concepts informs thinking. If words were not so powerful there would not be such taboos around them - in all cultures.

Absolutely thats all I have ever done to make a difference

not that you know me at all, do you?

Yes words are powerful. But sometimes i get the feeling that is all some people care about.

Peachy, please don't get upset. Of course i don't know you. and therefore i can't be directing any comments at you.

yeah, bully for me Spero 'cos that's all I've ever done.

I'm just self-congratulatory me.

"yurt i know LOADS of people who would be horrified and offended if you said 'fuck' in front of them. My mum for starters."

I know the point being that fuck is not offensive about a group. I think that's a pretty big distinguishing feature.

You don't know me either. So to whom were you directing your comments/anger?

i am directing my comments and annoyance (not anger) at those people who self righteously congratulate themselves about being all PC and who don't actually give a flying fuck about the reality for disabled people. If you know that is not you then what on earth are you getting your knickers in a twist for???

Well thenI am going to assume you don't realise that sort of randomly directed comment just doesn't work on internet threads.

Not sure you are aware but an awful lot of the people on this thread do have disbaled kids / own disabilties / etc etc etc, one is something of an expert in her field who has helped many, many SN famillies in her time on MN and is widely seen as making a masive difference (take a bow Yurt )

Okay wannabe, I guess you are referring to me.
Only a couple of posters queried what I said -well, I am sorry , did you want me to be thrown to the wolves.
I would never be disrespectful to a disabled/down syndrome person and that remark was not referring to anyone as such, it was just a turn of phrase which I didn't even think about.
I am so angry with you- how dare you single me out for one throwaway remark like that?
Guess you think I have learnt my lesson now.
Aren't there more important things for you to worry about?

Well I get a fuck seeing as my son has severe learning difficulties.

I have to say if I ever met anyone in RL who knowingly used the word 'mong' that would pretty much be it for me.

Which is actually why I think places like mumsnet could actually help these people out and say 'no words that are aimed towards a group- whether they're racist/disablist or whatever are not acceptable on here.

Okay, I'm sorry if I took it personally.

It's just that your comments seemed to follow directly from a post I made about not using words once I knew them to be offensive. My comments were in keeping with the question from the OP. I got my knickers in a twist because I do give a flying fuck-but I also get annoyed with the whole "re-claim" words crap that is used to excuse staying in a mind-set that should be put against a wall...

give a fuck even

And fyi, I think it is more important that in RL i treat everyone with respect and sincerity, but I need to start a thread about something that was so obviously not meant in an offensive way to feel good about myself

Hmmm. I had rather assumed that people wouldn't be so quick to take offence at a comment which they must have known couldn't possibly be aimed at them, given that the poster (moi) knows bugger all about their circumstances.

Hats off to all who are dealing with the problems and utter tedium of disability. Of course i'm aware that lots of people posting here have that experience. but equally lots won't.

Sorry that i have offended you. i thought the conversation was interesting.

a cup of coffee beckons now i think

"spero presumably mongoloid is unacceptable as a term for people with down's syndrome as it is descriptive of their facial features resembling Mongolians."

actually mongolid was used to describe the facial characteristics of not just people from Mongolia but more broadly any part of Asia. Negroid and Caucasoid were used to describe those from Africa and Europe respectivly.
Not sure if they are still used much now though but the police use IC1,IC2 and IC3 with the same meanings

mrsruffalo

I politely asked you to not use the word 'mong'

you didn't reply.

No, I didn't reply and I didn't use it again and I wasn't watching the thread anymore

In my experience, words have often been the 'frontline' when it comes to peoples attitudes, the changing of these attitudes and indeed often the first line in attack and ignorance.

That is why I consider the use of words important and believe that along with freedom of speech should come responsibilty.

Of course there are a lot more things to worry about, that doesn't however make challenging degoratory comments a fruitless exercise.

Just for the record though, I don't consider myself to be on some sort of moral highground/politically correctness cruisade, I just felt like adding my thoughts to the discussion.

I agree Gracifer. Words are important. I judge people by the words they use. If they're above the age of 16 and use mong/retard I make all sorts of conclusions about the type of person they are.

As I pointed out yesterday that one reason we decided against a certain special school was because the headteacher kept referring to "a Down's". He really should have known better.