Page 8 | Police officer cleared

Toomanywars · 2024-10-21T17:39:27+00:00

Martin Blake police officer today cleared by a jury of unlawful killing of Chris Kaba Should police officers get more support. Perhaps not release name until after trial or inquiry.

Bondii · 21/10/2024 22:35

username35890 · 21/10/2024 20:28

If he can't do his job without shooting unarmed civilians in the head, he shouldn't be doing it.

I can't believe how pro police people are. All the unarmed men shot by the police have been black. Investigations have found the police to be institutionally racist and it seems to be chock full of abusers, but apparently they can't do anything wrong.

The officer lied, he said that the car was coming towards him at speed, we can all see it was stationary. He said there was an imminent threat to life - there wasn't.

He could see -he didn't need CCTV or any other evidence - that the man had his hands on the wheel and the car was stationary.

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I am not pro police.

I hadn't heard of this case before tonight, and when I first saw the video, I thought it happened far too quickly to be considered a lawful killing.

However, since learning more details, I have to say that I don't think the policeman was particularly in the wrong. If it's true that the car was linked to a previous recent shooting, the policeman would have already been on edge, not able to predict what the driver may do to him. The driver was trying to escape the scene, indicating guilt of some kind. Why didn't he stop if he had nothing to hide? The policeman was most likely very fearful in that situation.

If I was suddenly jumped upon by multiple armed policeman telling me to stop my car, I would be terrified and instantly stop and do whatever they asked, confused and scared af.

The fact he didn't speaks volumes.

Ramblomatic · 21/10/2024 22:36

username35890 · 21/10/2024 22:25

He drove at police. He then revved his engine with an officer in front of his car.

Watch the footage. He reversed into a police car, drove forward and hit another police car and came to a stop. When he was driving, at a very slow speed, there were no police in front of his car. The police officer then moved in front of his car and shot him in the head. He was not driving towards the officer at the time.

'Who he is' is not relevant to the situation, and the action that was taken.

People are saying he had previous therefore the police were correct in shooting him. Yet the police had no idea who he was.

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Watch the footage.

I have.

He reversed into a police car, drove forward and hit another police car and came to a stop. When he was driving, at a very slow speed...

The speed he was driving at was irrelevant. There were police all around his car (one got their glove/gauntlet stuck in the door handle trying to open it) and a crush injury can happen at 1mph.

...there were no police in front of his car. The police officer then moved in front of his car and shot him in the head.

So there was a police officer in front of his car.

He was not driving towards the officer at the time.

So? He was revving his engine. He had a bunch of options, the only two stupid ones were revving and driving at one of three people with guns pointed at his head.

People are saying he had previous therefore the police were correct in shooting him. Yet the police had no idea who he was.

Who cares what people are saying? He wasn't shot because of his previous convictions, he was shot because an armed police officer judged that he was a threat to life.

username35890 · 21/10/2024 22:36

Ramblomatic · 21/10/2024 22:27

What would you call training firearms officers to shoot somebody once in the head or multiple times center mass?

Opening fire is the absolute last resort for armed police in the UK (other countries have much lower thresholds), but when a trigger is pulled, it's pulled with the expectation that the person in front of you is dying.

Stop arguing about something you know nothing about with someone who does.

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*You're embarrassing yourself. The Met does not have a shoot to kill policy.The official policy says firearms officers “shoot to incapacitate”.

herecomesautumn · 21/10/2024 22:38

MilletOver · 21/10/2024 18:59

I live in the area.

It is hugely unfortunate, tragic, that he was shot dead given that he was found to be unarmed. However understandable or mistaken in the circs.

It is exasperating that Chris Kaba will now be a hero in gang culture.

He was the alleged gunman in a shooting earlier https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/dancefloor-shooting-hackney-east-london-b1152735.html and the car he was driving had been involved in a firearms incident in Brixton the night before. Young people my Ds and his friends knew had their lives ruined or seriously impacted by the local gang activities of Kaba and co. They make life dangerous for young people: postcode wars, gang violence, co-ercing them into dealing etc. When the seige happened and his name was released all the young men in my (successful, law abiding, peaceful) son’s networks knew who he was, what he did and what he was involved in.

We have to have accountability, we cannot have police or anyone else shooting unlawfully. I wasn’t in court and didn’t see the close up videos or hear the full evidence, but trust the jury made the right decision.

But had the officer been found guilty or not guilty, either way Kaba will be held up as a martyr / hero by many people, and this is not good. Whatever happened, I wish the seige could have been ended without his death - to avoid another senseless death and to avoid the fact that this could make it even harder for the police to do their job.

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It's always good to hear from people who live in, and have knowledge of the area

Justice was done but I see the family aren't happy

crackfoxy · 21/10/2024 22:41

Notsuchafattynow · 21/10/2024 18:54

I'd really recommend a podcast called The Trial - Officer Blake. It has summaries from each couple of days from the trial. Very balanced reporting.

The car Chris K was driving was suspected of being involved in a shooting the night before. Car was stopped abd surrounded but CK was revving engine in a way it appeared he was about to push through the block which would have put lives of other officers at risk.

It took 17 seconds from start to finish.

*no suggestion CK was guilty of the shooting the previous night (from me).

Have you got a link for this podcast please I can't find it. Thx

Totallymessed · 21/10/2024 22:43

herecomesautumn · 21/10/2024 22:38

It's always good to hear from people who live in, and have knowledge of the area

Justice was done but I see the family aren't happy

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Sadly, the family will have people like @username35890 telling them that their son was the victim of a racist execution, so what hope have they got of coming to terms with what happened.

Astrabees · 21/10/2024 22:43

We don’t have the death penalty in this country, so shocked people are trying to justify his execution as he had previous convictions and was being awkward to the police.

Totallymessed · 21/10/2024 22:45

So here we go. It was an execution. God help the local community.

HarrisObviously · 21/10/2024 22:45

NewGreenDuck · 21/10/2024 20:14

Chris Kaba was a criminal, he had a record for firearms offences. He was in a gang who conspired to commit murder. He wasn't an angel. He was driving a car that was suspected of being involved in a shooting. None of it looks good. He didn't stop the car, he didn't turn the engine off, he clearly wanted out. He was the architect of his own downfall.

This sums it up exactly @Astrabees
His family should be ashamed of his criminal behaviour.
He should have stopped when he was told to and not rammed cars trying to escape.

Ramblomatic · 21/10/2024 22:45

JayJayEl · 21/10/2024 22:15

Of course they don't. Absolutely not. But you can stop/disarm an individual without using lethal force. In fact, de-escalation instead of lethal force is what our country prides itself on (in comparison to countries like the USA, for example). Murder/manslaughter is murder/manslaughter.

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But in this scenario the de-escalation options had been exhausted.

They'd attempted to pull him over (non-lethal), gave him multiple commands that - if obeyed - would have resulted in (at worst) a rough dragging out of a car and a knee in his back.

At the point where he has multiple firearms pointed at him, and is revving a car, what non-lethal options do the officers have available?

(Please don't say shooting him in the arm/shooting the tires etc)

herecomesautumn · 21/10/2024 22:46

Astrabees · 21/10/2024 20:08

There is no integrity in the Metropolitan Police. Whether they are driving or using firearms the cavalier attitude, total disregard for safety and trying to cover their tracks afterwards is very clear and totally disgusting. There are a long list of cases - Jean Charles de Menezes, William Cameron, Heather Smedley and many more who have lost their lives to incompetence and worse. The organisation that nurtured Wayne Cousins and the officers who behaved so appallingly to the bodies of Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman is not one that any of us can rely on to uphold standards of even common decency. Chris Kaba and his family did not get justice.

They didn't get what they wanted, but justice was done

JSMill · 21/10/2024 22:46

@AdviceNeeded2024 I was coming on here to point out what happened to PC Harper. If only his colleague had been armed.

username35890 · 21/10/2024 22:51

Totallymessed · 21/10/2024 22:43

Sadly, the family will have people like @username35890 telling them that their son was the victim of a racist execution, so what hope have they got of coming to terms with what happened.

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YellowSundress · 21/10/2024 22:52

Astrabees · 21/10/2024 22:43

We don’t have the death penalty in this country, so shocked people are trying to justify his execution as he had previous convictions and was being awkward to the police.

I really don't get all the hand wringing.

He wasnt "being awkward". He was posing a significant threat to the safety of everyone around him. The jury found the officer did nothing wrong. He wasnt executed.

If he hadn't done what he did, he would still be alive. In prison for murder by now probably, but alive.

username35890 · 21/10/2024 22:53

@Hyperbowl

His car was linked to a fatal shooting which would have fit the criteria for armed police to be deployed.

The car wasn't linked to a fatal shooting. It was believed to be linked to a firearms incident.

They knew enough about him to know he was linked to a murder

He wasn't linked to a murder. The car was linked to a firearms incident.

That’s all they needed to know about it at that point. He wasn’t stationary by choice. He knew he was faced with armed police who would have potentially needed to erase any threat he posed to them and the public by not cooperating and behaving dangerously by driving backwards and forwards in his car.

No one was in danger and it doesn't matter if he was stationary by choice, he didn't pose an imminent threat to life and was not driving at speed

He gave them no other option by his own design. The chances were too great to risk him being able to run people over by him being able to free himself which he had already attempted in order evade justice for a murder that he did commit.

He wasn't being chased for a murder.

He was a murderer, who killed people and who would have willingly killed again.

You're just making stuff up, it's weird.

ChesterDrawz · 21/10/2024 22:55

HarrisObviously · 21/10/2024 22:45

This sums it up exactly @Astrabees
His family should be ashamed of his criminal behaviour.
He should have stopped when he was told to and not rammed cars trying to escape.

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I totally agree.

I would be utterly ashamed and desperately sorry for his victims and the police, not making statements to the press about the "injustice" and how they've been "robbed" of their son.

ChesterDrawz · 21/10/2024 22:58

Astrabees · 21/10/2024 22:43

We don’t have the death penalty in this country, so shocked people are trying to justify his execution as he had previous convictions and was being awkward to the police.

"Execution"

🙄

Notsuchafattynow · 21/10/2024 22:59

crackfoxy · 21/10/2024 22:41

Have you got a link for this podcast please I can't find it. Thx

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I hope this works, if not I listen via Amazon Music.

Check out The Trials of Officer Blake & Daniel Khalife on Amazon Music.
https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/95dcd16d-7038-49fc-8422-197a54f2ccb5/the-trials-of-officer-blake-daniel-khalife?ref=dm_sh_yJNJF5iC57imEChjTvxOz04VG

https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/95dcd16d-7038-49fc-8422-197a54f2ccb5/the-trials-of-officer-blake-daniel-khalife?ref=dm_sh_yJNJF5iC57imEChjTvxOz04VG

Anyonecanquit · 21/10/2024 23:00

username35890 · 21/10/2024 18:57

He wasn't armed and from the footage no one was in imminent danger. The officer who shot him stood in front of the car and shot him in the head. I thought the police were meant to disarm people, not kill them.

It is not possible to disable armed people by shooting them in non-lethal parts of their bodies. Firstly, such accuracy is almost impossible, and secondly an injured opponent may still be able to kill you if they have a firearm.
The decision to use a firearm may have been wrong, but once it had been made it had to be lethal.

Ramblomatic · 21/10/2024 23:00

username35890 · 21/10/2024 22:36

*You're embarrassing yourself. The Met does not have a shoot to kill policy.The official policy says firearms officers “shoot to incapacitate”.

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What on earth do you think 'incapacitate' means? 😅

(It means remove all capacity to continue doing the thing you're shooting them for)

Read this really slowly...one in the head, or multiple in the center mass. That's how armed police are trained to shoot people. That's the only way they're trained to shoot people where there is a threat to life.

Unless you're using a peashooter, you're only surviving that by accident.

Stop googling things and arguing about stuff you know nothing about, with someone who does.

username35890 · 21/10/2024 23:02

Ramblomatic · 21/10/2024 23:00

What on earth do you think 'incapacitate' means? 😅

(It means remove all capacity to continue doing the thing you're shooting them for)

Read this really slowly...one in the head, or multiple in the center mass. That's how armed police are trained to shoot people. That's the only way they're trained to shoot people where there is a threat to life.

Unless you're using a peashooter, you're only surviving that by accident.

Stop googling things and arguing about stuff you know nothing about, with someone who does.

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Cool. Can you link to the Met shoot to kill policy please?

username35890 · 21/10/2024 23:03

Anyonecanquit · 21/10/2024 23:00

It is not possible to disable armed people by shooting them in non-lethal parts of their bodies. Firstly, such accuracy is almost impossible, and secondly an injured opponent may still be able to kill you if they have a firearm.
The decision to use a firearm may have been wrong, but once it had been made it had to be lethal.

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That's not Met policy, they don't shoot to kill.

Bondii · 21/10/2024 23:03

username35890 · 21/10/2024 23:02

Cool. Can you link to the Met shoot to kill policy please?

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You're being really obtuse.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/10/2024 23:04

This is like Jackanory and people are just making stuff up

Isn't that a little ironic, @username35890, considering you said that "all unarmed men killed by the police since 2005 have been black (in non terrorist operations)"?

Sean Fitzgerald: shot in 2019 after his mobile phone was mistaken for a weapon
Anthony Grainger: shot in 2012 by police who believed he was planning to raid a supermarket but were using "out of date information"
Steven Colwell: shot in 2006 while trying to drivee away from police

Also all white and all unarmed

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 21/10/2024 23:04

We don’t have the death penalty in this country, so shocked people are trying to justify his execution as he had previous convictions and was being awkward to the police.

We don't have the death penalty, we do however have some armed police officers who can use deadly force if the situation warrants it. Today's ruling concludes that it was warranted.
Or do you somehow believe that no death penalty means police can never use deadly force?