To think social mobility is impossible for working class /lower middle class kids?

[Cheeriosay]

And if it is possible how?! I feel the prospect of social mobility is at an all time low for teens/young adults due to the educational crisis in schools, cost of living crisis & lack of opportunity to move up in the world. This was relatively easy years ago either through education, marriage (or both).. Now it's not going to be as easy for teens & young adults who want to climb the social ladder.
I'm putting it bluntly, I'm sure some posters will be on soon to say these teens should know their place & not be getting ideas above their station but sod that!

This is spot on.

Those from the property owning class will have access to help with deposits, and will inherit. Those who aren't, won't.

The rise of influencers doesn’t mean social mobility is increasing 🤦‍♀️ or perhaps you have some data that does say that?

Aspiring is the critical thing. Aiming high, not being overly cautious (we have a nephew who has decided not to go to university despite excellent results as he can’t afford it - but hasn’t explored his options).
Parents and teachers must teach their kids the sky is their limit and they can be anything they want with the right hard work and application.

most parents and teachers don’t though - which limits the kids mindsets

What would you define as working/lower middle class and what would you consider social mobility? Moving to what you consider a higher class? I have no idea what class I would be considered and I certainly don't have any aspirations to move to a 'higher' class. I think it's a hugely outdated concept and not helpful.

Those from the property owning class will have access to help with deposits, and will inherit. Those who aren't, won't.

this is true & the government report agrees. Granted not everyone will get help with deposits from their parents.

Parents and teachers must teach their kids the sky is their limit and they can be anything they want with the right hard work and application.
most parents and teachers don’t though - which limits the kids mindsets

it’s hard to have that mindset without a safety net though. I tell my dc working hard will get them to X but I don’t really believe that. They won’t be able to buy a home without help from me & I had help.

But thats not real? My son can't be a ballet dancer, and that was clear from a toddler, he is hyperactive, dyspraxic and built like a front row forward. He also can't hold a tune, his drawing is awful (dyspraxia again) and he has no ability in languages whatsoever. No amount of effort would change any of these things. Realistic aspiration is great. But only a tiny proportion of kids become footballers or astronauts. It isn't all hard work and application.

It's not to do with house ownership, as other countries seem to be better at social mobility despite the majority renting. It's also not about poverty, as displayed by immigrants coming with nothing, not even the language, and generally doing much better than than their British working class neighbours. Same neighbourhoods, same poverty, same schools, better outcomes.

But it isn't true that the sky is the limit and they can be anything they want. That's just bollocks. Some people merely don't have the basic intelligence or ability for something no matter how hard they work or apply themselves

I 100% agree with you. Anybody who wanted to move on up in the 80's, could do so relatively easily. I agree with all posters saying that the bank of mum and dad (or gran and grandpa) are the only way for many now. It makes me both angry and sad at the same time.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/ZyCeGBuJsonU7ihe/?mibextid=UalRPS

i think this is spot on. No matter how uncomfortable

It's not to do with house ownership, as other countries seem to be better at social mobility despite the majority renting.

Don’t those countries have better terms for tenants? Is rent taking up most of their income?

is it though? Someone has to do the minimum wage jobs that at the moment we rely on immigration to do. That is a fact, albeit a hard one for society to swallow. Those that are academic should have a better education to make the most of it. Those that are less academic should have access to skills training that fit their needs.

the problem with the grammar system was the one and done chance at a very young age. The grammar system should have started at 13 and there should have been more than once chance to move into it.

Personally I think the class system is meaningless now. No one can define it and no one can pinpoint when they have made it up the social ladder. It makes no sense in today’s world.

Exactly. The majority rent. So you don’t have a group of people who ‘have’ (a secure house in childhood and a future lump sum in adulthood) vs ‘have not’. Wider inequality drives poor social mobility.

And actually, it’s not as straightforward as saying immigrants go better than their British counterparts: ifs.org.uk/inequality/press-release/social-mobility-continues-to-fall-and-moving-up-is-harder-if-you-grow-up-in-the-north-or-midlands/

You are very naive if you think poverty doesn’t have a huge impact. Yes some migrants do well- but equally lots don’t.
It is more noticeable with local families due to intergenerational poverty/ epigenetics.

It's down to the parents to a large degree.
Do you have the time and expertise to help your children with their education and how tough are are you prepared to be with them when they slack off/don't achieve the grades they should?
There is a major gap between the Tories and the educational establishment. The latter is desperate to have kids from backgrounds with fewer natural opportunities make it into their establishments.
Oxbridge for example offers far lower grades to kids from less well off backgrounds than those in the independent sector. Meanwhile the top independent schools are offering more and more 100% bursaries to kids who are bright enough to pass their exams.
The above might not fit the threads narratives, but it is the case.

There’s also a huge number of working class kids (of which I’m one, full disclosure) who thanks to New Labour went to Uni, achieved well, have good (though not always highly paying) jobs…. But still haven’t managed to get on the property ladder.

So we’re socially mobile in terms of education, aspiration etc- but by dint of not inheriting generational wealth / skyrocketing property prices we are now being left behind economically - and not seeing the “rewards” we were promised for hard work, achievement etc- but with the added twist of the knife that we now have kids - and we KNOW what will help them get ahead in life. We KNOW what they need to have financial security. We KNOW how once upon a time we could have helped them get there - and now we can’t help them- because we haven’t, and now probably won’t get there- because we don’t have money behind us to get us on the property ladder etc ourselves.

It’s cruel, really. Like being invited to the party, and then being told to fuck off when the meal comes out.

This 'aspiring' thing is just wishful thinking.

Millions of people aspire and are held back by structural inequalities.

If someone shuts your library where you used ot access the internet and you have to care for a parent instead of doing your homework, it is harder than if you have all the resources you need at home.

I work in the arts and it is dire in that industry.

One big arts organisation in London (which I won't name) has so many children of people who already work there, that it is shocking! Every time there is an opening, somebody has a daughter to fill it. There should be HR laws against Nepotism.

Far, far too many white women (often middle class) working in the arts... and far too few black or asian men unless you count security guards. So much for diversity! Totally bored of feminists who want everything to be about white women to the exclusion of everyone else. That's not really a world I want to be part of.

Don't even get me started on the acting industry and how difficult it is for the working class.

Having said all that, working in art events and we often have rich bankers come along (corporate patrons) and it is shocking how few women you see. Very much a boys club...

It isn’t the white womens fault!!
It is the education system.

Precisely this.
2 primaries in our village, ours is 'the poorer' end of the village, but with a really driven aspirational head who moved the school from requires improvement to outstanding, who teaches children that they are the only limit on what they can acheive, that 'the sky is the limit'
Other primary school is much more well off in terms of intake, many more professional parents, and a very kind head who has been there many years.

Many more pass 11+ or pass scholarship exams in our school, as the head is ruthless in championing the aspirations and rights of our children. At the 'look rounds' she very clearly says to prospective parents that she has high expectations both for the children and of the parents, basically 'don't bother coming here if you aren't interested in supporting your child, I will fight for them but I expect you to fight as hard'. She comes down hard on termtime holidays, lateness etc, but if a family is having a tough time she will support them.

I think housing issues and a breakdown in “communuty” plays a huge part.

I went to a school in an area of London that was wealthy but bordered fairly rough areas so had friends in million pound houses (probably lots of millions now) and also in council housing. It was a faith school so large catchment area.

I had friends with some pretty dire home lives in terms of issues within their families - BUT there was some sense of community within the estates they lived in, and I recall one friend often being looked out for by a lovely neighbour - though her mum had addiction issues. You would just not get that type of community support within temporary housing, or a a faceless private let funded by UC.

if you’re more rural and cannot afford to run a car, your child doesn’t get the opportunities to do those additional activities that both keep them out of trouble and offer more rounded experience when applying to uni.

it’s harder to hold down a first job when you don’t have the money to keep your uniform clean etc

I think many find it hard to understand what real poverty looks like, and just how much it affects every chance or opportunity

And yet you did.

Of course it is better to educate everyone well up to statutory leaving age. Absolute waste to have people educated badly.
The idea you would be fine for people who do minimum wage jobs to not be educated well is offensive.

I work in law. I’m from a solid working class background, a crap working class town and went to a dreadful comprehensive. I now earn a very, very good salary, live a firmly middle class lifestyle, in a “posh” suburb of a major city.

The main factor in me being socially mobile was supportive parents who weren’t pushy but who didn’t limit what I could do, and my own attitude that I won’t take no for an answer or be told I can’t do something.

Many of my parent’s friends have commented that they think me and my brother (who has done similar) have got above ourselves, that there is no value in going to University. That’s the same message they passed to their kids - university isn’t for you, you can’t do that, stay in your lane. It’s pathetic and self-limiting.

Opportunities in law for people from working class backgrounds are better than ever before. Apprenticeships are fantastic, some really talented young people coming through, firms specifically targeting schools and communities who might not think law is for them, assessing applications “blind” (without the name of their university or school, or any other info that might lead to bias). It’s far from perfect but heading in the right direction.