To think social mobility is impossible for working class /lower middle class kids?

[Cheeriosay]

And if it is possible how?! I feel the prospect of social mobility is at an all time low for teens/young adults due to the educational crisis in schools, cost of living crisis & lack of opportunity to move up in the world. This was relatively easy years ago either through education, marriage (or both).. Now it's not going to be as easy for teens & young adults who want to climb the social ladder.
I'm putting it bluntly, I'm sure some posters will be on soon to say these teens should know their place & not be getting ideas above their station but sod that!

What I see with Labour is dozens of MPs in Cabinet from a similar background to me in the North West of England. I hardly imagined this was possible in the 1980s.

What you are seeing at work is good - but the research shows it is not widespread.

@Simonjt did you get good results?

I think it's harder now than it used to be. I was listening to Lesley Manville on Desert Island discs earlier. Her parents were working class and when her father became bankrupt they got a council house. They'd probably end up in awful temporary accommodation now.
She wanted to go to the Italia Conti stage school and was given not only a grant by Brighton Council but also the train fare to get there from Brighton at 16.
Nowadays she'd be heavily in student debt and be sneered at for doing a Micky Mouse course and wasting time at drama school. She should be straight to work and not get ideas above her station.

When I left to attend the local comp, yes.

It's harder to get into the creative industries, that's true. They are full of nepobabies.

One of the barriers I have noticed for lower class kids is this litigious and insurance driven society.

DH grew up poor, small high rise council flat in Birmingham, large family and education not valued. However he was always keen to earn money and from a young age he was off walking dogs, doing a paper round, then helping with odd jobs with tradesmen etc
he left school with no GCSE’s but a super work ethic and now runs his own business and out earns all the middle class graduates who have all moved to our countryside after Covid.

We live a very middle class lifestyle (detached house in countryside, campervan, horses, and all that, and I have a corporate job. DH is far from middle class in his presentation and opinions though) however what we’ve realised is that for today’s kids like DH there aren’t those opportunities he had. We’d love to let some of the local youngsters come and help out and earn some money with our trade type business, or helping us landscape at home etc. But it’s too risky and insurance won’t allow it. Same with the ponies. I’d love to let some of the local kids help out at the yard in exchange for ride. But again insurance won’t cover them and I can’t take the risk of being sued if an accident occurred. Same with the dog. Can’t give any kids pocket money to walk dog,’incase it gets loose and causes an accident, and again my pet public liability won’t cover it. There are many instances like this. And it’s such a shame .

it also means those same kids are bored and getting into mischief. whereas DH could spend Saturday earning some money and then by evening could afford cinema or to fund a sport or hobby.

Who would have imagined 20 years ago that the deputy PM would be a woman who left school without a single GCSE because she left to have a baby
And I mean that as a good thing.

In what way are things much easier now?

I don't like to nitpick but can you point me to any specific research that includes a good quality measure of the subjects' drive?

Is it an entrance exam school? If so the richer kids will have received hours and hours of private tutoring. Not a level playing field.

If you are female, not white, have a disability etc I think it is obvious that the odds are less stacked against you now.

@verycloakanddaggers

I wouldn't know the percentages but I was one of those working class kids in a grammar. Yes, there were some ski-trips and parties in country houses going on. Didn't stop me from getting the education and the opportunities I was there for.

What alternative would serve me better? A dodgy inner-city (and the ones around me were dodgy!) where the principal hits the bottle on the sly and any lesson not interrupted by this mayhem or another, is a good one? A school where it's food bank had to be cancelled due to unacceptable behaviour by the parents?

I'm also witnessing right now what the education system has on offer for a child in socio-economically disadvantaged area. It's ugly. You'd have to see it to believe it.

My kids have done a lot of learning from youtube. Certainly all of GCSE science is very well covered on there. It's free.

I live in one of those ‘leafy counties’: Surrey. There are no grammars here nor in any of the adjacent counties. The nearest grammars are in London. In fact I think there are only three counties left with a grammar/secondary modern system, all the rest are in cities.

Absolute crap.

My observation as a non-parent, is that there is an ever-growing divide between those children whose families can provide them with the ‘all-round’ experience - after school activities, sports clubs, just swimming lessons.

These are not just nice to haves. These are foundations for social inclusion, confidence building , building a network, as well as just having a decent quality of life as they grow.

Yes , basic education is important, and leaving school with good grades definitely helps, but as social divides grow at the toddler level, they will show up even wider at the young-adult-starting-a-career stage.
I see nothing (in Scotland) which is not a regression in these areas.

I live in the UK, so I see the education system in the UK.

I am glad you had a nice time at school.

The research - actual research rather than a nice memory - tells us that grammars do not help with social mobility.

In addition, there are a wider range of schools than just the fictional examples you have written about here - you are not speaking about facts, just feelings.

It is absolutely laughable that anyone could think that private schools enhance social mobility. I’m sure some families who earn well, but not at the level to afford private without sacrifices have had their noses put out of joint by the VAT rules. But for the vast majority of poor children, private education was never and will never be an option, pre or post July 2024.

Since this idea about 'drive' is your thing, you should be able to provide the research to back up your position.

You really can't just make things up and then require others to disprove it.

Do they improve the social mobility of the children that get in?

Anyone who says paying VAT on private education affects social mobility has their head so far up their fat Tory arses that they couldn't be talking anything but utter crap.

No need to shout. So far they’ve prevent some families from social mobility by making private school fees totally out of reach. So private school will now be for the elite / seriously wealthy. Anyone else forget it.

Oh yes, private schools were cheap & full of poor dc before 🤔