This marriage is financial abuse - AIBU?

[catstaff47]

This is about a friend. I think she is being financially abused by her DH. I will try to give the facts as she described it -

1. He earns about £120k she earns about £12k (working p/t to be around for teens).

2. He pays the mortgage and bills. There is a food shopping account into which he puts about £150 per week (for 4 people and several pets).

3. Apart from this, she lives off the £1k per month she earns - even though she buys a lot of the kids stuff out of this as well because he will not.

4. She has no idea how much money he has saved or where and he will not tell her!

5. If she runs out of money in a given month, she will take / borrow from other people rather than just ask him - her own husband!

That's about it.

I could not imagine living like this and don't know how she has accepted it for so long. To me she has been somehow conditioned to think it's ok. I have told her this (gently), but I don't think she will do anything about it or leave him. Plus I think he must be beyond help to even do this in the first place.

AIBU and what would you say to her?

OP you have said that he occasionally gives money to the DC to buy clothes so presumably that is when they need them not when they want them.. Paying all the bills including a high mortgage probably doesn't leave him with much left over every month. You don't even know he isn't transparent with his money.

You call him stingy and stopped asking him around because he wouldn't buy a drink but his wife is exactly the same and you are happily carrying on seeing her. You don't like him and are determined to paint him as the bad guy here

People who have £1,000 of spending money every month can afford a coffee.

Partially agree with you.

But on the other hand, if she’s spent many years out of the jobs market, how’s her confidence right now? Has she kept up to date with training in the career she previously had? Unlikely. Even if she worked full time in a basic job, she’s looking at a salary of 25k. Given her age and the massive gap in her CV, how likely is she to waltz into a well paying job?

because she lives with an uptight, controlling lunatic

Ok - we get it. You really don't like your friend's husband. And you seem totally over-invested (excuse the pun) in the whole thing. Maybe step back a bit, and let them get on with it.

It’s quite clearly been described as money to be spent on the children, petrol, life expenses other than mortgage. It’s not ‘pocket money’.

I don’t think we have enough of the information here. Is he paying into a pension for her? Who decided the food budget? What if she wants to buy a high value item? Has there been any review of the costs of the teens?

If you looked at DH and I you would see some similarities except that I am the higher earner who pays the bills. DH does most of the food shopping from his income and would give the impression that we are hard up - we are not. We are both fairly frugal and DH comes from a lower income country so is careful by habit. He would pay his way if out with friends but wouldn’t want to be too extravagant. He will grumble about the cost of food shop even though he has spent less that what either of us earn in a day.

I wonder if is a clash of financial personalities - is he too frugal and her too spendy. The main red flag for me would be that she can’t talk to him about it. Why not?

He pays the mortgage and the bills and gives money to buy clothes for the DC?

If she es earning 12k, she must work very little. Why doesn't she just increase her hours? She will have a lot more pocket money then (because that is what it is). Most people who go part time still have to pay bills and a mortgage - she doesn't. She is much better off than most without having much work to do. He doesn't sound like a great team player I have been through financial abuse myself but having your mortgage and bills paid and not having to contribute despite working is not! You friends needs to grow up and start working proper hours. You don't mention children with severe disabilities so I cannot see what is holding her back.

Wow, you really hate him. He is supporting them. He's paying the mortgage, the food, the bills, no doubt family holidays etc. I wouldn't be surprised if he has the same amount of money as her to spend on himself, once he's paid these bills (having seen how much DH has left each month).
I was a SAHM mum for years and yes DH benefitted in some ways. He could easily focus on his career. But in other respects he was stressed out having the full financial responsibility for 4 people. There were times he wanted a less stressful, lower paid job but couldn't because he had bills to pay, a family to support. I also benefitted from being a SAHM because I enjoyed it and I didn't have the stress of working.
I don't know why you're so angry about all this. It's not your business. If your friend is unhappy she can leave.

There is a big difference between clothes the DC ‘want’ and ‘need’. My two do a lot of athletics and every couple of weeks one of them ‘needs’ a new pair of trainers or fancy new, high tech running spikes they’ve seen. They’re told no, they have what they ‘need’ and if they want them, they go on a birthday/Christmas list, or they save up and buy them themselves. DD would happily go clothes shopping every weekend given the chance, but she has everything she needs so any ‘wants’ she buys herself.

@HFJ point taken. However, she works 3 days a week already, so not completely out of the jobs market. I do take your point though, as that loss of confidence is real, and can be hard to oversome.

My own full time job was not especially well paid (bog standard band 5 nurse) but it's sure helped in getting me some savings and a bit of a pension for retirement. I've retired from nursing now, and have a little job of 3 days a week, as enjoy it, and like to have some spare cash for holidays etc.

On page 14 or whatever we are the privilege is startling. She has a weird OH, but she’s weird too so maybe they suit each other. He’s tight, she is a flat out grifter who makes plans with you and won’t put her hand in her pocket, and pleads poverty. It’s troubling. I fear she overstates her position at home so she doesn’t want to pay as she sees you as well off.

She probably doesn’t want to upset the apple cart and ask for more money as he could quite rightly say - right we’ll pay a cleaner £50 a week and share the cooking and you go and get a job that isn’t minimum wage and is full time and you can have all the money you need.

She married who she married: if she isn’t happy she could leave. But she would be much worse off financially and expected to get a full time job and have much less than £1000 for incidentals.

Of course he pays thd bills though. She was a SAHM for years.
He can't have it both ways. If you want your wife to SAH so you can di effectively nothing with your own children, then yes, you osy all the bills. And you pay for everything - obviously. Thus goes without saying.

Then after about 10 years, she is hardly going to walk into a job that earns the same as him is she? Again, this goes without saying. That's the deal. He can't have his cake and eat it.

She supported his career. She has done everything for his kids with minimal support from him because apparently he can't cope with them because of his 'mental health.' If anything, he is like another child. So yes, he should put up and shut up. His money is hers and he has no right, after all these years, to expect her to be limited to a pt salary - or even a full-time low salary. They are married. He needs to support his family properly and change his mindset.

She only has £12k per year. He pays for nothing for the kids

when did working to house, feed, dres your DC boil down to paying for 'nothing'. By that definition, I pay for next to nothing for my DC.

His money is not hers.

He already pays for everything.

If she had £500 more a month she still wouldn’t buy you lunch.

I di take all the points about her weirdness though. This is why I'm posting tbh - it stresses me out and I just don't get it.

I think, at the end of the day, my big concern is around the lack of a team approach. If he’s earning 6 figures, he’s likely to have a certain kind of personality.

The crunch will come when the teenagers need driving lessons, rent support at uni etc. big ticket things. Will he support?

Take a step back, you are already over invested and don’t pay for her anymore unless you are loaded and don’t care.

His money is hers. 109%. They are married. He wanted a SAHM. So, by definition, his money is hers - or family money. That's the deal in families with a SAHP.

Well, when it comes to divorce, credit ratings, benefits and HMRC investigations, finances are viewed in joint terms. For example, if a couple split, the wife is entitled to make a claim on the husband’s pension.

Sorry 100%, not a random 109%!

They can set up their finances how they like. Just because you don't agree is neither here nor there. Step away and stop getting so overly invested

I agree. God I’m worried about this common view that it’s OK for SAHMotherhood to be a form of indentured servitude. Have we gone back to the 1800s?

I think there’s an undercurrent of jealousy about the family’s overall set up. Some women would like the option of being a SAHM with 1k a month to budget all the extra family costs with. Sounds like freedom, right?

So a salary of 120k is probably around 6k a month post tax and pension

Say the mortgage is 2k a month
Bills another 500-600
Food you have said he pays £650
Are there any loans, credit cards or cars he is paying for - petrol, car insurance etc

If she is struggling with 1k a month fun money then maybe the issue is she is unable to budget. 1k a month to spend on yourself is a lot of money. Maybe he is worried that she may blow the family savings if she has access to it. He is making sure the family bills are covered. Financial abuse would be if he were making her contribute equally to the bills from her 12k salary. This isn't financial abuse.

If that were true then it would be the law that any money earned in a marriage had to be shared equally. It’s not.

On divorce fifty/fifty is the start and a sahp would likely be awarded more of martial assets to make up for lack of earning potential. There is no legal requirement that money has to be shared but if a spouse is left short or has to beg then that could be financial abuse:

I think it’s fairly obvious at this point that the OP is the “friend.”

But let’s break it down shall we?

Let’s see what he pays for:

• the mortgage. How much is that? 2? 3? £4000 a month?
• the council tax. £200 maybe?
• gas/electric. (Between 150/£300?

TV licence. £13. Water. 25/£35.

• groceries. £600

Ah yes, I can see here that he pays for nothing. What a tight bastard.

And let’s see what you pay for OP:

• clothes for the kids. Maybe £150 a month?
• Clubs. Maybe £100 a month?

You don’t even pay for your own coffee because you scrounge it from your friends.

Out of £1000 a month you should be able to save at least half of that.