To be angry that people don't grasp you can't stop adults ending their life

[Differentstarts]

I'm getting really annoyed about people's perceptions around mental health and suicide. And the news recently has highlighted it. All the people saying why didn't anyone stop it. Firstly you don't know what people's family and friends did. Secondly how do you suppose you can stop a grown adult making a choice.
My best friend ended her life I spent hours and hours over a period of months trying to convince her not to do this. I checked on her multiple times a day (think stalker level) after yet another overdose I begged the hospital to section her and they wouldn't. I took her to Dr appointments, to see her councillor and when she died I still got people asking me why I did nothing to stop it. So can someone please tell me how I was supposed to stop it as this is really pissing me off.
Yanbu You can't stop a grown adult doing what they want to do and only they can control that.
Yabu you should of done more (please tell me what?)

Oh my. I'm sorry but this is so naive. It's not like a TV show, where someone declares 'I am suicidal' and everyone else runs around hiding the kitchen knives.

I have had three suicides of people close to me. One I have spoken about a lot. She was utterly unreachable due to addiction. We never stopped trying, though. Another was in a mental health unit at the time of her death, and still found a way. And the last one, he never told a soul what he was thinking – which is common with suicides.

Two of those people were under professional mental health care and could not be stopped. The idea that someone who had gone on a workplace mental health course could have prevented any of these three tragic deaths – and anyone could have 'made happy memories' with them – is utterly unrealistic, not to mention quite upsetting.

@unmemorableusername that's brilliant that you had this. It's great that you could still see and accept those acts of kindness. Someone else may not be able to do this though, let alone leave the house. Or they may need something completely else, which they may also not know, or those around them may not be able to see. There is simply no logical approach possible to help someone who is suicidal like there is with physical illness, where you focus on keeping them breathing and check the pulse.

What you describe as MH first aid is practical help. It does not and cannot get through to the person though and can still only be 'administered' if the suicidal person allows to. My work referred me to the employee assistance program, which was total BS and id nothing more than lip service.

I would love to see the day one can walk into A&E and receive tailored help like anyone with cancer or heart disease would.

That's not practical though and doesn't work for everyone.

Usually when someone decides to die they are happy and at peace days prior to it. There are no signs at that moment. In fact they might look on better than usual.

I don't believe most suicide is preventable but please do share how. When someone truly wants to end their life

Was watching The Dog House last week. Last week, the mum getting a dog revealed how her son died to suicide. There were no signs at all. He went for a cycle ride, and never came home. He was sixteen. It’s not always preventable (and mum/sister, if you’re reading this, my heart goes out to you, and I hope your little dog, Elouise , is giving you a lot of joy and comfort).

Oh my gosh that's heartbreaking.

My son has severe mental health struggles and this is my ongoing worst nightmare.

I can't imagine their pain. 😢

The WHO says suicide is preventable.

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide#:~:text=Suicide%20is%20a%20serious%20public,interventions%2C%20suicides%20can%20be%20prevented.

Anecdote isn't evidence.

Prevention isn't just about when a persons at crisis point, it's the years before - preventing trauma, having stronger community & family ties etc.

Ok, so we just need utopia. No trauma, for anyone. Perfect families.

I think starkly stating 'anecdote isn't evidence' in response to six pages of people talking about the most devastating thing that has ever happened to them is, to put it lightly, a little cold.

I'm out.

Exactly - I used to hide and keep on my person all medicines in the house that my mum could have used to hurt herself (at 17) and was told she would just find a different method. I also tried all of the methods mentioned, hiding sharp objects, multiple long daily phone calls, between us not leaving her alone, repeated intervention by the GP, ambulances, community mental health services, a private therapist I paid for in my early twenties. She ultimately chose suicide by innocuous objects and completely hid any sign of planning it. Same for my friend's friends who she has lost to suicide. There's also no help in offering walks and GP appointments to someone who is agoraphobic, paranoid, violent, somehow repeatedly assessed as not needing to be sectioned.

I definitely don't think the PP is wrong and don't want to invalidate her experience at all, she is right we should keep checking in on people, supporting them, signposting, offering help. But there are degrees to suicidal ideation and sometimes people are so determined they go beyond the point of help.

YANBU at all. I've seen some awful comments online about Liam Payne's girlfriend, friends and family.

What things though ? You mean called an ambulance?

Everybody talks about mental health services being insufficient to support suicidal people etc - but in reality many suicidal people don't have mental ill health at all. Some do, and find themselves suicidal as a result of severe depression or psychosis but others are actually making a decision with capacity to do so due to situational factors and would not respond to a mental health intervention. Suicidality isn't a mental health symptom by itself. It's very complex and sometimes cannot be prevented by others no matter what is tried.

Shame on those who are pushing guilt on you. It isn't your fault . And I'm sorry for your loss. There are no words for t this kind of horror, I wish I could give you a big hug.

@

You just can't sometimes.
My DH niece tried many times and was stopped or helped each time.

Then succeeded in an awful way.

This is very true. People who go to Dignitas, for example, are not mentally ill.

There was a chap hovering over a motorway on a bridge where I live. Lots of people online saying that they hoped he got help... must be desperate etc. He was up there because he was trying to avoid being arrested!

I'm so sorry. That is tragic. 💐

He was kind of desperate if he feared going to prison more than death. It's possible he might have taken his life in prison. Whether he deserved to be in prison or not is not the issue. But of course I agree that feeling low or afraid doesn't necessarily mean mental illness. Seems he was making a sane decision to die, like those people who go to Dignitas due to terminal or life limiting illness.

I agree that it’s not always possible to stop them. I’m sorry for your loss, and that people accused you of doing nothing to try and save your friend. That’s an awful thing to say to someone who’s grieving and is obviously not true at all. It sounds like you did everything you could.

Absolutely true. Some people you can't reach. If love could save people, there would be very few suicides.

I've had a friend survive a suicide attempt. She said it was like being in a trance at the time, she just couldn't see anything or anyone else in the moment.

I've had another friend die through suicide. We know we did everything we could. I have no room for those who judge because they're just clueless about the reality. Sure, there are things we could have tried differently, but we made the best informed decisions we could at the time. It's also highly unlikely that the other things would have changed the outcome, it might even have hastened it.

I agree. I've gone on to do some work in the area and from what I've learned, if that trigger event comes and no-one is there, it can happen very fast. We like to think we have control, but we really don't. That's a hard and scary thing to accept.

I agree wholeheartedly with @Twatalert about being able to walk into A and E with a MH crisis and be taken seriously. No it won't save everyone but if it saves even some then that's worth it.

I work in a university and there is currently a campaign, by some parents who sadly lost children to suicide, for us to have a duty of care to students, potentially making us criminally liable (as I understand it) if they end their life as a result of the pressures they may face at university. I’ll be handing in my notice if this happens, and I expect I won’t be the only one.

You sound like you did everything you could OP so you should not feel guilty.

However, the discourse framing suicide as a decision, a choice, a want, and that nothing can be done I vehemently do not agree with.

I have attempted suicide several times over my life because I struggle with severe mental illness. When I was actively suicidal, it wasn’t my decision, my choice, it wasn’t what I wanted and plenty can be done in a psychiatric hospital to prevent completing suicide.

The illness rears its head and periodically robs me of my autonomy. The last thing I need is someone throwing up their hands and saying oh well, it’s your choice I’ll leave you to it shall I? It’s not my choice, it’s not me that is choosing this. The distress comes from fighting to stay alive. Depression, PTSD, Schozophrenia- all the illnesses that are linked to suicide they are like a mind virus they are trying to kill their host as much as any body virus.

I do not agree with allowing suicidal mentally ill adults to end their lives.
I have zero respect for a decision that is no decision but a compulsion caused by a real and extremely painful illness.

Mental healthcare is way behind physical healthcare. We can’t save as many now as we hopefully will be able to in the future. It’s like in the days before we had treatments for cancer. People were just given palliative care because there was no radiotherapy or chemotherapy or immunotherapy. The billions had not yet been spent on research to cure cancer. One day, if similar investment and research were done into mental illness, then I think more will be saved.

I’m one of the lucky ones- so far, my last attempt was April 2023 and there will be more as the nature of my illness is there are relapses and that is why I have crisis care plan as a safety net.

That's all well and good if your lucky enough to be taken seriously by mh professionals and get proper help but the majority don't. The majority get patched up and sent away with very little to no professional support. The nhs is a postcode lottery and 2 identical people with identical problems would be treat very different dependent on where in the country they live. I'm not saying throw your hands up and do nothing. I'm saying when people do choose to end their life don't assume family and friends didn't help them. Their is only so much friends and family can do without backing from the nhs. And even then that's not always enough people kill themselves in psych wards all the time. If someone is adamant you can't stop it.