To be angry that people don't grasp you can't stop adults ending their life

[Differentstarts]

I'm getting really annoyed about people's perceptions around mental health and suicide. And the news recently has highlighted it. All the people saying why didn't anyone stop it. Firstly you don't know what people's family and friends did. Secondly how do you suppose you can stop a grown adult making a choice.
My best friend ended her life I spent hours and hours over a period of months trying to convince her not to do this. I checked on her multiple times a day (think stalker level) after yet another overdose I begged the hospital to section her and they wouldn't. I took her to Dr appointments, to see her councillor and when she died I still got people asking me why I did nothing to stop it. So can someone please tell me how I was supposed to stop it as this is really pissing me off.
Yanbu You can't stop a grown adult doing what they want to do and only they can control that.
Yabu you should of done more (please tell me what?)

DH lost a close friend to suicide and he agonised over what he could have done to stop it. I told him that it was like asking what you could have done to save someone from cancer, you just can’t. I agree with you OP, it’s insensitive to say that to the people around the person who sadly succumbed to their illness.

Big tight hugs @Differentstarts
There's nothing you could have done at all, you were a wonderful friend. My Sister ended her life in 2013 and I tortured myself every day thinking why didn't I do this or that. I've not read all the comments or your posts OP but people saying that to you can get to fuck! They have no idea what it's like to love someone who ends their life.

YANBU

Unfortunately we live in a time where self responsibility and accountability do not seem to exist. Everything negative that happens to an individual seems to be someone else’s fault or something someone else could do something about.

People seem to have forgotten how much control individuals have over their own personal outcomes and behave like we are all rudderless vessels being pushed around by other people, by society, by some system.

Equally Liam could have lived with regret at not taking the chance with the competition.

I do think that mental health conditions can be like physical health conditions, in that for some people a mental health condition is terminal and incurable

I agree with this, and have made peace with the loss of someone. They had no more choice than someone that died of a physical illness.

And by that I mean I don't think people choose, I think they get to the point where it is the only option. But I agree there is nothing else that can be done.

And as for support, if you are rich you can have all the support and treatment in the world and it still isn't enough.

My own experience was professional and not personal when i was on clinical practice in an MH hospital. A lady was sectioned in because she had cut herself. She was under supervision and the grounds were fenced but it wasn't a secure facility. She seemed relieved to have been stopped, co-operated with the care of her self inflicted wounds, was taking her medication. it was around 4 days after her admission, she climbed the fence, walked to the local road and deliberately threw herself under a car. To me as a student it was shocking but the staff who knew her from previous admissions, while very upset, were of the opinion that "it was only a matter of time" If you are going to work in MH, its an important lesson to learn that sometimes there is nothing further that can be done by anybody. OP I am so sorry that people are judging you. That is really cruel and unfair.

Sorry for your loss, but I don't really understand why you are so angry with other people for not understanding that you can't stop people. You presumably didn't just accept that you can't stop people - you spent ages trying to stop your friend (totally understandably).

Well other than locking someone up in a padded cell and on 24/7 suicide watch which obviously isn't an answer, there simply isn't a way to 100% prevent suicide.

Yes MH support is lacking, but even if it wasn't there'd still be people who go on to end their lives. Sometimes it's childhood trauma, personal circumstances e.g. financial troubles and other times there doesn't seem to be a reason as such.

When I was struggling nobody had a clue because I hid it.

My mum can never grasp that those who are going through suicidal thoughts often don’t think about anyone else because they are suffering so badly. She will say things about not thinking about their kids or family but when you are so deeply hurting other people become significant. I think it’s ignorance in her case.

Sadly, its grief talking when they say "why didnt anyone help"

I'm angry because people are blaming others yet again for a person's decision. This happens all the time and people just don't learn. It's always she/he should of done this or where was their family, or why didn't anyone help them. This stuff shouldn't need explaining to people they should just know that nobody is responsible for other adults decisions. I'm not saying don't help but when the help doesn't work don't blame the person helping

Sometimes it's just a snap decision a colleague of mine was doing really well with his are psychiatrist and was showing very positive signs of recovery when he went for a walk along the coast and never came back. He'd jumped off Beachy Head.
His wife said he'd been in a happy mood that morning and said he'd be back for lunch.

I agree OP. I was once on watch for a friend, advised to keep an eye on them 24/7. I couldn't, eventually after a few nights, I went to sleep. I reasoned I would never be able to stay awake long enough. They have recovered now and I think putting that onus on family and friends to keep someone alive is a terrible thing to do.

That's not to say that there aren't preventive measures that could help, like better MH provision, selling smaller quantities of overdose type drugs, interventions to reach out to people thinking of killing themselves, but ultimately, people can side-step those or even just accidentally hurt or kill themselves due to a chaotic lifestyle which may be what happened.

I agree there's no point going over the whole past thinking 'what could be different', it's past anyway and there's no reversing time.

I’ve seen a lot online about Payne and people saying “why wasn’t anyone helping?”. People WERE helping; emergency services were called, hotel staff escorted him back to his room when really they did not have to as they are not a baby sitting service. Payne was high on class A substances and was behaving aggressively smashing up his room; I’d not approach an adult male that was high as a kite and being aggressive. Whether Payne wanted to end his life we will never know.

With Payne the damage was done many years ago. He was an addict for many years. Imagine suddenly being in thrust into the limelight at 16, then basically being treated like a God for years while you traveled the world performing. For then it suddenly come to an end. You are in your early 20s with more money than you could ever imagine but your career is essentially done. I always thought that 1D were a bit like Take That with Robbie Williams; Williams was the superstar but Barlow was the engine. With 1D, Harry Styles is the superstar and Payne was the engine but not the star. I guess that’s quite catastrophic personally when it all ends.

I am sorry for your loss, OP. You were clearly an amazing friend.

As a mental health professional, I know that you can't save everyone, even when good support is in place, and sometimes not even when they are in hospital.

People often want someone to blame, to try to make sense of it, which is unfair on those being blamed. I understand your anger.

Well other than locking someone up in a padded cell and on 24/7 suicide watch which obviously isn't an answer, there simply isn't a way to 100% prevent suicide sadly even doing this isn't enough, with 10 or 20 min checks, often people do things very quickly and staff can't act quick enough or only spot it minutes later, and it is too late.

I think of the three C's of AA for addicted family members, which are you didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.

I've spent my entire professional career around people considering, achieving or failing to end their lives by suicide. @Differentstarts you are absolutely right that in some cases there is absolutely nothing you or anyone can do.

MH provisions are woefully inadequate but even if that wasn't the case suicide wouldn't miraculously go away.

I'm so sorry for your loss..

OP you’ve been through something horrendous and a lot of people (some who really should have known better) have made really unhelpful, uninformed and judgemental comments. Of course it’s hurtful, of course it makes you angry. YANBU. Now you are seeing similar comments being made about a news story and it’s dredging everything up. You have my every sympathy.

I too have been in a similar position and had to listen to people making these comments. You asked why people do it. After many years of pondering the same thing these are my thoughts:

Misplaced guilt - it’s very common for people to feel very guilty when they lose someone this way. It’s usually totally unnecessary guilt but all the same it’s a horrible feeling that eats away at you. I think sometimes people try to ‘project’ their guilt away onto somebody/something else so they don’t have to feel it anymore.

Misplaced anger - it’s normal to feel irrational anger when you’re grieving. It’s also normal to feel anger at a loved one who has taken this awful decision. But then you feel awful about being angry at them so, again, you project it all elsewhere. Looking for someone or something to blame.

Fear - it’s very frightening when a person dies in this way. People try to comfort themselves that it would never happen to their loved ones because they would do it all ‘correctly’ and ‘save’ them. As you have pointed out, this is not always possible.

Have you ever noticed that when, for example, a person gets a cancer diagnosis, some people say really unhelpful things like ‘oh are they a smoker?’ ‘is it because they drink too much?’ Etc. it’s the same sort of thing. They are trying to comfort themselves with ‘I don’t smoke so this won’t happen to me’.

Sorry for the long post but I’ve thought about the same things that are troubling you for a long time and I hope you might find this helpful. They’re all trying to make themselves feel better in clumsy ways, none of it is your fault.

Take care of yourself.

It is helpful to understand the psychology of why people say such things.

The thought that we could lose a person to suicide is very frigthening. Some people can handle that fear. Other people can't, so they find a way to make it that they couldn't experience that - they tell themselves they would 'do something' to prevent it.

The people saying these things are not thinking about you, they are reacting to their own fears.

I am very sorry for your loss @Differentstarts

As someone who suffered a minor brain injury (that took a shocking amount of time to recover from), I don't think we are anywhere understanding the human brain but in some people, I do think that there is genuinely something "wrong" if that's the correct word to use. And nothing can fix that sometimes - no amount of drug therapy, counselling, whatever.

No one is responsible for other people's actions. Only those of our own.

People say these things because it is frightening to feel powerless. Clutching at the idea that it is easy to prevent suicide is like rocking with a teddy bear in the dark. If it its easy, it means it will never happen to one of their loved ones. I am so sorry people have hurt you by saying this but try not to take it personally. I am sure people just say this stuff without thinking. x

Edited to add; I think suicide is one of the hardest deaths to grieve, it creates a maelstrom of emotions, with anger backing all of them up. When people come out with daft things it seems to hurt even more.

No you can’t stop them and even if you did once it doesn’t mean they won’t try again in your absence.

Sorry for the loss of your friend. I had a relative who took their own life some years ago and my SiL’s husband took his. 💐

I am sorry for your loss OP
And yes, you are right, you can't stop someone ending their lives if they have chosen to do this.
Even with all kinds of support in place, for some people that just isn't enough. I feel like someone else said that mental health conditions can also be terminal, like some physical conditions and just like those physical conditions, sometimes the treatments can no longer keep the mental health condition at bay.

It's nothing but a tragedy for everyone concerned and people should not be looking to blame anyone, especially not family members or friends. Sometimes people are failed by the system and better intervention could possibly have avoided the death but sometimes even with everything in place nothing helps.

As for Liam Payne, why are people here talking as if that was suicide? Do we know that he intended to end his life? It sounds to me like he was completely out of it on drugs and probably fell off the balcony in a tragic accident because he wasn't properly aware of his surroundings.

A very, very close friend ended her life last year. I knew where she was mentally, I knew that she'd been temporarily, well whatever the US form of sectioning is called, my friend was American, and handcuffed to a bed for 48 hours which funnily enough didn't make things better. Her mother had her "sectioned"and she and a few others were trying to ride out the storm.

The very last time we spoke I basically knew it was going to happen. She was in so much mental and physical pain. I told her how much I loved her, that I didn't want to lose her, life would feel empty without her but that was it. I didn't try to persuade her not to because I knew it would make no difference. If it was going to be our last conversation I wanted us to talk and laugh about us, the things we'd done, the times we'd had. I hoped so hard I was wrong, that she'd find it within herself to try life again but she didn't. I miss her every day, I wish she was still here although I've been seriously ill this year and I'm sort of glad she's been spared that.

When I was told I thought I'd feel guilty for not having done enough and angry at her for leaving us all but I didn't. I understand why she did what she did and I know that nothing was going to stop her. I hate that she was in so much pain, that nothing was working, that there had been so much in her life that had fucked with her mental health and that physical pain was a constant. She was one of the finest people I've ever known and being loved by her was one of the great joys of my life.

Thankyou I appreciate that and you make some really good points I remember when I nearly died of covid a lot of people said but do you have an underlying medical condition which is actually quite a crappy thing to say like it didn't matter if I died because I had medical conditions but I was never mad at them from this question as you could tell it was through pure fear and made them think they would be alright as they didn't