To be angry that people don't grasp you can't stop adults ending their life

[Differentstarts]

I'm getting really annoyed about people's perceptions around mental health and suicide. And the news recently has highlighted it. All the people saying why didn't anyone stop it. Firstly you don't know what people's family and friends did. Secondly how do you suppose you can stop a grown adult making a choice.
My best friend ended her life I spent hours and hours over a period of months trying to convince her not to do this. I checked on her multiple times a day (think stalker level) after yet another overdose I begged the hospital to section her and they wouldn't. I took her to Dr appointments, to see her councillor and when she died I still got people asking me why I did nothing to stop it. So can someone please tell me how I was supposed to stop it as this is really pissing me off.
Yanbu You can't stop a grown adult doing what they want to do and only they can control that.
Yabu you should of done more (please tell me what?)

I agree completely. There’s a huge difference between attempting to take your life (as a cry for help in many cases) and actually doing it. The cases I’ve known are very different and the ones who succeeded didn’t do a cry for help, they just ended their life without any big drama. It’s very sad that they’d suffered silently for so long.

It sounds like you were a very good friend OP

My son was actively suicidal 2 years ago at aged 17. We had a conversation where he was so rational about why he wanted to end his life and how much he was suffering that I felt immensely selfish and guilty for wanting him to stick around. He got better and is doing ok now but it took a lot of processing for me to realise his autonomy and that if he were to take his own life there would be nothing I could do about it. He had intensive input from CAMHS and lots of safety plans in place and extensive safety scaffolding - but if he had wanted to do it there would have been nothing I, or anyone else, could have done to stop him.

Yep all the celebs make out they were their best friends and looked out for them, when they didn't give a shit until they died.

I don't blame the celebs but they behave like vultures with their virtue signalling statements.

The suicide course I went on recently highlighted how hard it is fkr family of suicidal. It's each day you have to look at what the reasons are u don't want to die today. It must be so hard

It's a person's right to choose to end their life, I think, or at least it should be. Samaritans training includes staying on the line and being with someone who didn't want to be alone as they go (or at least it did 20 years ago), not trying to talk them out of it, not calling 999 if the person didn't want them to.

You can’t, you’re right. Sometimes you can delay it, or help them think twice or help them
to get help and it sounds like you did absolutely everything in your power to attempt this.

The thing is, sometimes anti-suicide interventions work. Sometimes strangers talk other strangers out of jumping off bridges or train platforms, then those people go on to regret their suicide attempt and their mental health can improve. Or sometimes it makes no difference and they just try again.

I once had to talk my friend down from throwing themselves off their tenth floor balcony. It was the middle of the night, and I was doing so over the phone. Eventually they went back in, and I stayed on the line until they were in bed.

I was so stressed that I called the Samaritans straight afterwards, because, despite the result, I was scared that I'd said the wrong things, and that if this happened again, I needed to do better. The very first thing the lovely woman said to me, was that had my friend taken their life, it would have been their choice, and nothing I said would have made a difference. That I'd not said anything 'wrong', and that ultimately someone has the right to choose to do this, and those around them don't factor into the decision. I found that comforting.

That is too much to ask a volunteer to do imo.

I agree OP. An adults life is nobody else's responsibility. There isn't actually much you can do to help a mentally ill person or drug addict to avoid the worst. All the BS that this or that person as been failed by those around them. I can't stand it.

I know from experience how difficult it is to recover from trauma and addiction and address very poor mental health. It takes years of commitment from the person and unfortunately some people aren't able to do it. It's not a weakness or somebody else's failure. It is simply very difficult to do and everyone's set up and circumstances are different.

If you refer to LP I actually read that he had checked in and out of the priory. He had all the money in the world to get help, he even sought help, he could have taken months off or longer without worrying to pay the mortgage, but it seems he simply wasn't able to. He also was an adult and you can't actually interfer with their autonomy. It is sad, but ultimately he was ill and unfortunately some get killed by this illness either directly or indirectly (without knowing what exactly lead to his fall).

YANBU
Sadly, a few people in my life have taken theirs. One that stuck out was someone who gave no outward signs at all. Nothing. Their life was great, but they clearly thought it wasn't. No one could have prevented it.

It is horribly unfair to put the burden of blame on the survivors when someone kills themselves.
I was in A&E for suicidal ideation, and the crisis team told me that it was my decision to make. At the time, I was upset and thought it meant that no one cared.

That is why people who apply to be a Samaritan are vetted.
If they can't handle someone needing human contact in their final moments, then they wont get past the training.

You were and still are a wonderful friend as you hold the memory of her.

If someone sees that as the only solution to their problems they will find a way to do it.
No amount of being there for someone is going to alter that
Op you did all you could to help your friend but ultimately the choice was theirs.

It's the not getting help for them. I've had two close family members who were Samaritans, one of them in particular I know could not have done that. Though this was some time ago perhaps the rules were different. I'm sure you can see that asking someone to not try to save someone's life isn't the same as being there for someone who you cannot save. Your response was unnecessarily judgemental imo. Though I see you have personal and very difficult experiences of this yourself.

I think people who volunteer their time for free to Samaritans in what is an emotionally challenging endeavour is to be commended, but I contacted them previously (thankfully a while ago and am doing okay now) and the conversation made me feel actively worse which I didn't think was possible. Having no support sometimes is better than having the wrong support which can feel like it's validating your inner dark thoughts. Reality is that this service is increasingly being used to capture those who are failed by formal mental healthcare provision. Until the training and working conditions are improved though staffing NHS services is never going to meet demand.

Having no support sometimes is better than having the wrong support

@Firestace I agree. My mother was having alcohol addiction counselling before her suicide and I wonder what exactly was said to her. She had started saying things like 'I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. X told me I mustn't trauma-dump on people'. She never did 'trauma-dump' on us, she never talked to us about what was on her mind. And then she seemed to learn the idea that it was wrong to do so.

I think we are a long way from figuring out how to help people.

Because people are so complex we do need better mental health support before suicidal idealisation takes hold. No one normally gets straight to "I don't want to live anymore". That process started somewhere.
I agree with the OP and also get angry when people don't fully comprehend a person has made that choice and nothing could be done.
We are selfish when it comes to our loved ones. We don't want to think something could be so bad that they don't want to live besides us. We cling to hope because we aren't in that head space and feel helpless looking for something or someone to blame. It's easier that way.
In my family we are currently supporting my BIL who tried to commit suicide 7 times last year. The support he received from MH services was laughable. He's now a new dad and in a better place but the trauma he's suffered still replays in him. He's a very complex person.

Morbid thread but I tend to agree.
This three dads walking etc isn't going to stop people either.
You might raise awareness, but it's not going to stop happening.

As someone who's been suicidal then recovered (several times) there are most definitely things people can do.

Most suicide is preventable.

Your personal experience sounds extreme. But there are lots of other examples when there were opportunities to help people that weren't taken.

We should all learn mental health first aid and suicide prevention just as we learn CPR/physical first aid.

I'm so sorry for your loss, OP. I lost my mum to suicide after many years of severe mental illness. I spent a long time doing everything she wanted when she threatened suicide (giving money, calling people for her to solve problems etc, more serious things I won't mention) as well as things she didn't want like calling ambulances to her house and trying to get medical intervention. In the end when she decided to go it was absolutely without warning, even to my sibling who was at home with her.

A close friend of mine has lost three friends to suicide and one of her close friends also lost a sibling to it. Out of all those stories, it was never the people showing signs of needing help that died by suicide.

Also, the state of mental health services in this country is appalling, especially if you're low income and really vulnerable, and even more so if you're in a state where you present a risk to the people around you.

A distant relative of ours drove to beauty spot and ended their life .Predictable comments of why? and very upsetting for all of us, esp their Mum.However I often think of Robbie Williams song "Feel" I dont want to die,but Im not keen on living either " Life is hard at times for everyone,and some people simply cannot cope.Maybe something has pushed them over the edge who knows.No on can stop another human from doing something !

@unmemorableusername in your view, what is it that would have helped you?

I was first suicidal as a teen and told my mother, who ignored it and it was never again talked about. I even tried to figure out myself how to come under the care of a psychologist but I couldn't on my own and without my parents taking me. So I agree something could have been done then, but other than professional help I really don't know what people around could do .

I believe the human mind is so complex that I don't think mental health first aid could be a universal approach. In a way the Samaritans already try doing this and there is always mixed feedback on this. In my opinion, mental health first aid needs to be practical... Either to call emergency services or remove anything that could be used to unalive. And then of course their needs to be better care for mental illness.

But trying to get into someone's mind as a partner, parent or friend when they are feeling suicidal is a gamble and it also really isn't as simple as administering cpr. They could make things worse and it's needs specialist skill that can't be taught in a first aid course. I also think it's too much of a responsibility to put on anyone.

Sending love and hugs to everyone.

There actually is a MH 1st aid course.

An employer sent me on it!

There are practical things like removing methods, not leaving them alone and taking them to the gp/ a&e depending on the urgency.

Long term I was helped by 'small acts of kindness' ie people spending time with me, getting me out of house in sunlight every day, doing purposeful things, confidence boosting, making me feel valued & wanted.

Making someone feel like a burden & hard work is counterproductive. Creating happy memories is much more important.

But if someone chooses to end their life despite all available help being offered to them, the helpees are not to blame at all, are they?