AIBU to turn a blind eye or this borderline neglect?

[octobero]

I have a friend who I've known for a long time, she has two children aged 15 and 8, neither fathers are involved and never have been. To be honest I think this was her doing and cut contact when both kids were very young.

Our son is also 8 and they are best friends and get on very well. Friends son (FS) will often come to ours for dinner after school or a sleepover at the weekends but I feel she just doesn't make any time for him. Also this isn't a criticism thread just want to know whether people think I should get involved or leave her to it:

• her house is a tip. Not just a bit messy but dirty too. Sink is constantly full of washing up, the bathroom is grimy and there are toys and clothes everywhere. I have offered to give her a hand and will always try to bits here and there but she always says "oh I was just about to do the washing up/tidy the toys away etc". One time there was a crusty cat poo under the table, I was just like "oh Dcat seems to have had an accident; let me clean it up quick". I couldn't stand the thought the children standing in it or anything.
• FS will often come to us grubby. I know children get like it, but not from say playing outside that day but grubby ears and under fingernails, greasy hair etc. clearly he hadn't been washed for at least a few days. He happily has a bath at ours (which F is happy with me to do, she'll often ask me to bath him if he's staying over).
• his home work is never done. If we have him after school I will sit them both down so they can do it together before playing. The children have reading diaries and homework books and F has never once filled these in/or has home work been done. Unfortunately FS is falling behind in some areas, she showed me his latest report, but she hasn't seemed to make any changes.
• his attendance at school is low. She will keep him off for the slightest sniffle or if she isn't feeling well. Yet I would always offer to take him in if id known before school. The last time was that he'd felt sick in the night, hadn't actually been sick but she kept him off for two days "just in case". Again his report stated his attendance was so poor it was 75% and affecting his learning.

I don't want this to come across as a digging post at my F but more whether I should get more involved to help with things. Unfortunately I do feel it's more that she's just lazy, She has a lot of family close by who help with childcare etc.

I not only have reported my own concerns about a child, but i have a professional experience of being part of the process.

When concerns are " reported" there is never a direct action. It is simply filling in pieces of the jigsaw agencies that are already building, to see where to refer the family for support. . Teachers, GPs, attendance records, behaviour and observations....... If everyone does their job correctly. And that's a big IF in such a chaotic world at the moment ( housing, healthcare and cost of living crisis ) we are all stretched and have little capacity, so people like you, should you raise this, keep those that should have priority top of the pile by making sure their jigsaw has the most pieces.

I can already tell you the education welfare officer will already be involved, as well as safeguarding at school ( attendance and presentation/hygiene/engagement..will have all been flagged with what you describe. )

The first approach is always to support and signpost, the family is never at risk in the first instance with these things. . She will be offered lots of support from either childrens centre/SS, and its how she engages with that support and the outcomes that will be measured. You will be doing her a really big favour, it sounds as if she needs a hand/kick up the backside!

Good luck, please dont ignore this.

I think you need to try much harder to find time to keep your home and your daughter clean.
She probably won't understand at 8 but in a few years when kids start pulling her up for being the dirty child in class she will remember it well into adulthood.

Yes I think so. I'll often drop her a message if FS has not been at school to check he's ok and if necessary he's been taken to the doctors. The last time she mentioned about the dentist was because he was having a filling, I don't know about check ups.

He's always dressed appropriately sometimes things may be on the slightly smaller side but still he often has new clothes so it's probably just that the washing hadn't been put away rather than he doesn't have appropriate clothing if that makes sense.

Yes family members; mum, dad or her sisters usually

@pikkumyy77 thank you, that was what I was getting at, I knew first thing people would ask is where dad was otherwise

Thanks for all the responses everyone, there's a lot to go through! But many are very helpful

I think the 15 yr old needs to start taking some personal responsibility too. Maybe reach out to him for a chat about the house. You could show him how to clean things hygienically and give him tips about things. You could casually talk about showering schedules etc and mention that he could help keep an eye on his sibling too. It sounds like she needs help and while I don't think 15 yr olds should be carers, they do need to step up a bit and help out at home especially if things are not being managed by a parent.

You don't say if she is loving towards them, I hope so. It sounds like she is depressed if she is doing nothing all day.

That's neglect and it's inexcusable

Those of you saying school will already be aware, nothing will come of it or SS have bigger things to worry about are missing the point of a safeguarding referral. This is not a request for intervention, or a judgement or attempt to get children removed but a report of concerns that will potentially form part of a wider picture - a piece of the jigsaw. You have no idea how what she is telling school or how much is being picked up so absolutely have a duty of care to report a concern for someone else, a professional, to either escalate or investigate. If you are questioning should I report this, the answer should always be yes .

Too many people turn a blind eye, assume someone else is aware or don't want to be a nuisance/break up a family/ruin a friendship and that is exactly how children continue to live in abusive home or fail to get the support they need. And let's be clear, neglect is a form of abuse.

I work in safeguarding and have not spotted any safeguarding issues …

Its up to the safeguarding lead at school to decide whether there are or there are not, not her or mumsnet. And they can only do that with the whole picture and after due process. And that picture will be far clearer than we have on here so how can u possibly conclude that. If you do work in safeguarding, you will know that all you have to do is suspect a safeguarding issue in order to be correct in reporting it 🤷🏼‍♀️

Speak to the school if you feel that is necessary as they will already be aware of attendance and any other concerns. It’s difficult to say from what you described but social services are unlikely to feel this meets threshold, but early help services may help her. However, YABU to call yourself her friend.

Why? The school already know poor attendance, little homework, falling behind, they will be able to see the child us unkempt also. Just help the best you can, it's for school to refer on if needed. If you refer child could lose your support.

You need to tell school at the very least. From all the safeguarding training I've undergone on the last 30 years the one thing that has not changed is the fact that you might feel what you know isn't a significant part of the picyure. What you don't know is how many other people have given bits of evidence, and your contribution could be the final bit of the jigsaw that means that action is taken to improve a child's situation. Don't just ignore it. If you really care about the child and his outcome you have to say something.

@peachcob absolutely! I'm staggered at the number of people who still - despite so many high profile cases - turn a blind eye to save a relationship, assume someone else has flagged it or just don't want to get involved.
FFS people, safeguarding is everyone's business and if you have a concern, you report it. End of.