AIBU to turn a blind eye or this borderline neglect?

[octobero]

I have a friend who I've known for a long time, she has two children aged 15 and 8, neither fathers are involved and never have been. To be honest I think this was her doing and cut contact when both kids were very young.

Our son is also 8 and they are best friends and get on very well. Friends son (FS) will often come to ours for dinner after school or a sleepover at the weekends but I feel she just doesn't make any time for him. Also this isn't a criticism thread just want to know whether people think I should get involved or leave her to it:

• her house is a tip. Not just a bit messy but dirty too. Sink is constantly full of washing up, the bathroom is grimy and there are toys and clothes everywhere. I have offered to give her a hand and will always try to bits here and there but she always says "oh I was just about to do the washing up/tidy the toys away etc". One time there was a crusty cat poo under the table, I was just like "oh Dcat seems to have had an accident; let me clean it up quick". I couldn't stand the thought the children standing in it or anything.
• FS will often come to us grubby. I know children get like it, but not from say playing outside that day but grubby ears and under fingernails, greasy hair etc. clearly he hadn't been washed for at least a few days. He happily has a bath at ours (which F is happy with me to do, she'll often ask me to bath him if he's staying over).
• his home work is never done. If we have him after school I will sit them both down so they can do it together before playing. The children have reading diaries and homework books and F has never once filled these in/or has home work been done. Unfortunately FS is falling behind in some areas, she showed me his latest report, but she hasn't seemed to make any changes.
• his attendance at school is low. She will keep him off for the slightest sniffle or if she isn't feeling well. Yet I would always offer to take him in if id known before school. The last time was that he'd felt sick in the night, hadn't actually been sick but she kept him off for two days "just in case". Again his report stated his attendance was so poor it was 75% and affecting his learning.

I don't want this to come across as a digging post at my F but more whether I should get more involved to help with things. Unfortunately I do feel it's more that she's just lazy, She has a lot of family close by who help with childcare etc.

If you're not sure, talk to the NSPCC.

As others have said, safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility and this definitely sounds like neglect. School will probably be building a picture and anyone can add to that even if “just a friend”. Likely to result in early help rather than anything more but still important

It's neglect but I do find on Mumsnet that posters underestimate social service's threshold for involvement. As @HarlieJae says this wouldn't be enough to trigger social services involvement where I work. By all means report but be prepared nothing may happen.

The best thing you can do is continue to be there for this boy, lots of playdates, take him out on trips if you're able to do that.

It's not necessary to pass any judgement on your friend to recognise that her children's needs are not being met. They are being neglected.

Sometimes it makes it easier to say to yourself, "and I don't need to know the reason(s) why" or "and it doesn't have to be somebody's fault".

You seem to view escalating this as being the same thing as passing some kind of judgement on your friend. But it's not. Her children need you now to intervene. Report your concerns.

I would hope school already aware, but please report anyway.
Low attendance should mean that school have some kind of attendance plan due to safeguarding.

She isn’t coping and, from her comment about just being about to clean up, she knows she isn’t coping. She’s stuck and I think it will be difficult for you to help because there’s a lot going on. However it turns out, your quiet and accepting support will be invaluable. Perhaps just gently help with one thing at a time. Above all be accepting of her as she is.

PP’s would be horrified at the circumstances and situations that some children live in. Neglect by failing to meet basic needs.

Drugs, alcohol abuse, children sofa surfing around communities, men and women in the same community with numerous children to numerous different men and women. Mother missing all night (found comatosed in a field), bare houses, sadly I could go on.

Parenting education much needed.

I would be concerned. Talk to the school about your concerns and let them deal with. Then support her as much as you can.

best thing would be to tell the school
hopefully they will be tactful

It is neglect OP.

Put the needs of these kids above your friendship and report to social services.

Lovely, so some other feckless crap parent that our taxes are supporting.
Poor child - have a word with the school and even SS. He can do much better than her. Plenty of lovely potential foster/adoptive parents out there.

This sounds really tough. I would be concerned about both friends mental wellbeing and the children.
Surprised with low school attendance that their isn't additional support already.......
Maybe see if you can get your friend to see a GP - she maybe quite overwhelmed and struggling. Then possibly safeguarding lead at school.
Great that you are doing what you can for the son.

Thanks all. I am going to write a letter to the school and drop in this weekend to remain completely anonymous. I don't want to alienate my friend and if I can keep helping her and the boys I want to.

No there really aren’t “plenty” of foster and adoptive placements. Foster placements are as rare as hens teeth and children do not get adopted because someone, somewhere else can give him a better life. That isn’t how it works.

I mean OP come on. I think there is a touch of the internalised misogyny going on here. Neither father being involved is something they could have pursued if they wanted to, they haven't, that is on them.

You do sound like a kind person though, I don't think it's kind to let her struggle on and see the DS neglected so I think you are doing the right thing.

Bloody shameful on those two men though. Disgraceful.

If this were my friend, I’d definitely be passing judgement. Neglecting her children but finding time for a new relationship and weekends away. I’d find it hard to like this person tbh. Those poor kids, dirty, cat shit on the floor and no interest at all in their education. Yes, I would be reporting the situation to school/SS. Thank goodness her son gets a bit of respite with a bath and getting some normal family life. I was a bit neglected as a child but nothing on this scale.

Accepting of who she is? That’s fine if she just has herself to look after but she doesn’t. Like I say-she can find time for a new relationship but not to parent. We really need proper early years intervention in this country along with education of our young people as to what’s involving being a parent. If they’re not shown at home, how do they learn?

It sounds like you’re describing many of my alternative hippy friends whose children are well loved and well attended to. Parents have creative jobs, kids often get dirty building damns in stream or playing hide and seek in the woods. Home time is home time and homework not a priority. Quality time together is more of a priority. Parents don't spend hours cleaning, everyone has lots of creative projects on the go, house never fully straight as a result.

that doesnt mean there are not safeguarding issues

100%. This would be NFA'd by CYPSS in my area.

Understandably, the public don't really understand the thresholds for intervention and how CYPSS neglect and an individuals version of neglect differ widely.

And how CYPSS are dealing with much higher priority cases because of those thresholds. Just because most people don't realise what neglect requiring intervention is.

OP should report it though.

They won't speak to you but you can rasie concerns and it will go from there, your friend won't know it was you

Unfortunately I do feel it's more that she's just lazy,
Or clinically depressed? I would contact the school and say you are worried about them both. I'm surprised you haven't already tbh.

I couldn’t be friends with someone who treated their kids like this. And I’d report to SS she’s ruining the kids chances by keeping them out of school. I think you’re complicit if you don’t do this and if you were my friend IRL and told me you’d been witnessing this for ages and not doing something I’d be straight up and not be friends with you either. It’s just not decent. You’re prioritising what? Your friends right to not be judged over two children’s health, wellbeing and education. She’s a shit parent and you know it. Please be brave for the children’s sake