AIBU to turn a blind eye or this borderline neglect?

[octobero]

I have a friend who I've known for a long time, she has two children aged 15 and 8, neither fathers are involved and never have been. To be honest I think this was her doing and cut contact when both kids were very young.

Our son is also 8 and they are best friends and get on very well. Friends son (FS) will often come to ours for dinner after school or a sleepover at the weekends but I feel she just doesn't make any time for him. Also this isn't a criticism thread just want to know whether people think I should get involved or leave her to it:

• her house is a tip. Not just a bit messy but dirty too. Sink is constantly full of washing up, the bathroom is grimy and there are toys and clothes everywhere. I have offered to give her a hand and will always try to bits here and there but she always says "oh I was just about to do the washing up/tidy the toys away etc". One time there was a crusty cat poo under the table, I was just like "oh Dcat seems to have had an accident; let me clean it up quick". I couldn't stand the thought the children standing in it or anything.
• FS will often come to us grubby. I know children get like it, but not from say playing outside that day but grubby ears and under fingernails, greasy hair etc. clearly he hadn't been washed for at least a few days. He happily has a bath at ours (which F is happy with me to do, she'll often ask me to bath him if he's staying over).
• his home work is never done. If we have him after school I will sit them both down so they can do it together before playing. The children have reading diaries and homework books and F has never once filled these in/or has home work been done. Unfortunately FS is falling behind in some areas, she showed me his latest report, but she hasn't seemed to make any changes.
• his attendance at school is low. She will keep him off for the slightest sniffle or if she isn't feeling well. Yet I would always offer to take him in if id known before school. The last time was that he'd felt sick in the night, hadn't actually been sick but she kept him off for two days "just in case". Again his report stated his attendance was so poor it was 75% and affecting his learning.

I don't want this to come across as a digging post at my F but more whether I should get more involved to help with things. Unfortunately I do feel it's more that she's just lazy, She has a lot of family close by who help with childcare etc.

There is a lot about adult ADHD just now and this sounds a bit like it - neglecting housework, distraction from what you were about to do. She sounds like she needs help but maybe not reported to SS. Probably school is aware of some things due to low attendance but you risk losing the friendship if report to SS. Could you ask to speak to younger boy's teacher confidentially?

Right. But what I specifically posted was about contacting the NSPCC. It's their own line for adults to report concerns. If you go to the page there is lots of information about different types of abuse etc. They are very much saying if you have concerns, call them. Maybe the idea is that they offer advice regarding what does or doesn't need reporting to CPSS? I don't know. But it is a useful place for information.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/reporting-abuse/report/

They won't speak to you but they will listen to you.

Almost everything about this woman's behaviour is worthy of judgement. It is worrying that you think otherwise.

Inaccurate and unfair. OP was just stating facts and the point of the post isn't reflected in your response

This isn’t good you should arrange your life so you have time to keep your daughter clean

Hi Op, you are clearly concerned and in a difficult situation. I'm sure the school are aware of the situation and ss may already will be on the radar.
I wouldn't speak to school but perhaps an anonymous communication to ss?
No easy answer and I have had similar experience myself

That is a pointlessly hostile comment. Without this information OP could gave expected endless snippy posts “where is the dad? Or “oh the dads are different, well you can’t expect the older kid’s dad to care about the younger kid” etc…etc…

👏

Baffled at some of the responses on here. The kid is being neglected.

How is she with her own appearance?
If she has recently got into a new relationship and is going out and having weekends away does she put effort into herself?
Do you know who takes care of her kids when she’s doing this?

Assuming she’s not brought her new partner home? 😳
Leaving cat shit on the floor indoors (or even outdoors 🥴), old dirty dishes in the sink, not giving a shit about cleaning your kids or caring about their schooling; yet gadding about socialising and having weekends away is a massive red flag and I’d definitely report with no conscience.
She clearly doesn’t have one.
Poor kids 🥺

Don't be ridiculous. There are zero potential adopters for an 8 year old and there is a national shortage of foster carers. We don't have any alternative for this kid better than his grubby, fairly neglectful mother. And as for taxes supporting her - how much do you think foster care costs the taxpayer??

Social services help usually results in a positive change for the children, or at best doesn't help. It's unusual for it to make things worse.

I don't judge her over the level of involvement the fathers of the children have with their kids.

But that doesn't change the fact that she is neglecting them. That's her responsibility. Whether it's because she is struggling, has MH issues, or is simply just a bad person makes no difference at all - the kids are still being neglected, and it should still be reported.

That's really not ok. You need to make some changes to make sure you're doing the best for your DC.

So there's a balance to be made with wanting to impose certain expectations and 'standards' on everyone, and realising those expectations may not be realistic in wanting to impose on everyone, group, society or culture

The standard of "not neglecting your child and letting them be unwashed and live in a filthy house with animal excrement on the floor" should be imposed on everyone. If they find that unrealistic then the state should remove them. It doesn't because this isn't a priority for voters whose own children do not live like this and the children involved have no vote. That doesn't make it ok. Studies from other countries (e.g. Denmark) dem

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

... demonstrate that children growing up in a well-funded and nurturing care system with consistent and well-qualified staff caring for them in small homes, not moved around endlessly and provided with stability and decent opportunities can have the same outcomes as those growing up with normal families, despite their disadvantages in early life. The critical things are removing them as soon as issues become apparent and supporting them properly afterwards. Not doing so is a political choice.

OP, school will listen to you. I'm a teacher. We can only record what we see at school. You have seen the home environment. It might be the piece of the puzzle that gets them both some help.

The needs of your disorganised friend and the continuation of your friendship are trumped by the needs of your her children.

Now you know what is happening in her home, you have a human requirement to protect those children from neglect.

You need to tell her face to face that her parenting is inadequate and the evidence that tells you this, then you need to make her step up. This might include some of her hobby and dating energy being channelled into her own children. This is a shit task that you have to do, but you are the only voice these children have right now.

If you tell the school, they will refer social services, who will put this kind of borderline neglect at the bottom of their priority list, as they're snowed under with very serious neglect. So yes, do tell the school, but if you genuinely care for these small humans, you will also have to do your duty as a human.

I'd be blunt, she manages hobbies and a new man but neglects her kids, she sounds very self centred to me.

@TotHappy
There's really no excuse not to give your child a quick shower before bed, doing her homework is good for her.
What exactly are you doing between school and bedtime?
This is neglect. There's no pride in having a filthy home and kids.

@octobero you say she often has weekends away, etc. Who looks after her kids those times...family? If she has outside family stepping in it may be that they are just one of those families that don't really give much regard to cleanliness (and this applies to rich and poor). Do the kids seem genuinely content or do they show other feelings of being unhappy, stressed, etc?

yes also kids play outdoors and have dirty nails and all it takes to wash dirty nails is few second with the right brush, same is for hair - some people don't bathe their whole selves but use dry shampoo - same result

not sure how the poster is believing she has the whole picture and also people telling her to keep doing play dates and still report to SS - wtf

I would report to social services as you can do that anonymously, the school won’t have much power to help.

so you are going to ruin your friends whole family wellbeing but will keep taking her kids to trips - how is that going to work, explain to me in the real world

I don't think social services will do much here. They could maybe push her to improve his school attendance, but for the rest...if there isn't any faeces around when they visit, they will probably just shrug. If the children are happy and doing well socially, not at risk or violence or abuse, have appropriate clothing etc, then being slightly grubby wouldn't be enough to take action. Especially as everyone has different standards - I notice you say sometimes he looks like he hasn't been bathed for a few days, which definitely wouldn't be a SS concern.

Re homework, lots of parents in my son's class just say "We don't believe in homework for primary pupils" and never do it. This is also not going to be a SS concern.