Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

Don't Americans say "washroom" or "restroom"?

I agree that your DS has done nothing wrong. People move separately and regroup on nights out and it’s totally normal. I say this as someone far past the age for nightclubs, incredibly boring and with a job a million miles from model or rockstar. I also grew up in a village with 2 buses a day and had my first drink at university.

I’m also very comfortable in my feminism and believe in bodily autonomy but don’t believe in a nightclub a man can’t touch my waist. If I tell him I’m not interested and he doesn’t stop that’s another issue. But I can’t pretend a crowed noisy intoxicated nightclub environment is comparable to this happening in the supermarket, at the bus stop or in work.

Moreover let them have their own relationship and work things through together. They aren’t small children and you will mess up your relationship with both and create and odd dynamic into adulthood if you continue to interfere.

No. LOO.

If it was the first time this girl had been to London and it's late at night/early morning I'm not surprised she was distressed and din't know how to get a cab! I'm a Londoner myself and used to get cabs home at all hours but this girl needed help. You are being callous. Her brother is a disgrace.

How could you possibly not know how to get a cab.

Even if she never got one before, We've all seen movies

and the girlfriend was going to the smoking area and had offered to take my daughter to the bathroom after but she said she didn’t want to go the smoking area.

Dear lord, your daughter should just stay at home next time. She is 19 and needs someone to take her to the bathroom.

When I was 19 I moved abroad by myself. My 19-year old was travelling around the world for three months.

Actually, I don't know how to use Uber because we don't have it in my part of Hicksville. But if I was going out for the night in the nearest city, I'd download it and use it, although I also have numbers for taxi companies licensed in the city in my phone and I know where the city centre cab ranks are.

Gosh your son sounds very emotional mature and balanced. I hope at a later point you thank him and mention that his respectful reaction to this palava is noted and you are aware it couldn't escalated if he had hadn't handled it so well. I think this is the best outcome you could have hoped for. I hope your daughter is okay. I think she needs a bit more practice going out and being independent, perhaps locally with friends is a good place to start.

The thing for me here is that loads of 18 year olds are expecting to get into those situations as they go to university.

And their parents have to let them get on with it and make mistakes and learn how to how to solve them if they do.

Parents can't micromanage their child's social life at that age. They don't have an older brother to swoop in and act as bodyguard and babysitter.

In this sense the situation is age appropriate - you wouldnt be saying all this stuff about taxis for a uni student so why this girl? Somehow because her brother is there, this girl is infantilised to a point that's really potentially unhealthy. It's unfair and unrealistic for parents to expect the older brother to look after her without her taking any degree of responsibility for what happened. The fact he's older is irrelevant.

The situation is age appropriate.

That makes me think something else is going on with the daughter or the parents themselves are part of the problem.

What behaviour though? Nothing about the 25 year olds ‘behaviour’ screams immature and irresponsible to me. And just because you seem to know a lot of mature 25 year olds who would baby their adult sister means nothing. We don’t know the full truth of the night out, neither does the OP.

Suggesting the son is irresponsible because he hangs out with drug users and goes to clubs where there is sleazy men is such a wild reach. Some of my friends were drug users, I’ve never taken drugs in my life. I’ve been to plenty of clubs where the men are sleazy. It doesn’t automatically mean I’m associating with the sleazy men, they just happen to be there too. You can’t just announce that this persons son is irresponsible and essentially going off the rails, and oh God clutching your pearls, you hope he finds his way back. The people on this forum can be utterly nuts!

I can see why she was upset but on the other hand, her brother and girlfriend did tell her various things (such as staying with the friend in the toilet etc.) which she then ignored or claimed she didn't here.
They were trying to look out for her but in the end she ran out of the club and then couldn't get back in (brother's girlfriend had warned her about the security being strict).

I really think a 19 year old should be equipped to deal with a situation like that and know how to call a cab. I know you were in London and she's not from there but really, you should have told her beforehand what to do if she got separated from the group which can sometimes happens in clubs.

Before she goes out clubbing again she needs to have strategies for possible scenarios or even if she goes out for dinner with people or for a few drinks and then goes home and the others go on to a club.
I can remember my Mum teaching me stuff like this before I went to university because I hadn't been used to going out really before then and when I did go out my Dad picked me up from the town centre. So before I went to uni, my Mum went through various scenarios and said if this happens, do this; make sure you have the number of a taxi company and a spare 10 pence piece for the phone box (yes, I'm that old) etc.

I grew up in the 1970’s. A world of racism, unbelievable sexism, misogyny, extremely poor policing, drugs, and to top it off lovely, the Yorkshire Ripper on the prowl in the area. Somehow, even in our mid teens, let alone late teens, we survived, still had fun, went to night clubs, got through Uni, and 99% came out the other side, un raped, un touched, and the wise never even smoked a fag let alone did drugs of any kind. Don’t have a brother, but we shed our niaivity at school, (all girls) in the day, talking about different issues amongst ourselves, learning basic keep safe rules, what had we seen when out and about, how did we deal with it. We learned about the bad things, though none of us actually experienced anything truly harmful. We learned boundaries, keeping ourselves safe, emergency tactics. Most of us carried a tail comb or knew how to inflict damage with a stiletto heel, about avoiding being alone with males we didn’t know, about not walking home alone at night, about sharing a taxi. Which were the sleazy pubs, which were the safe pubs. I can’t remember anyone getting so drunk they couldn’t stand up, or wearing ultra sexy outfits, it wouldn’t have been safe. That was the world back then for teenage girls/women. You grew up adapting and coping with what was out there at the very worst, so that if you did come across it, you recognised it and made an informed decision how to act. No mobile phones in the 1970’s.

Poor son getting loads of calls from his mum on a night out with his friends.

That's embarassing

Yes I think this is what has annoyed people, not that she's young, inexperienced and upset but that mum was livid and 'beyond angry' with brother as if in some way he was at fault.

This hits the nail on the head for me. Brother is being expected to supervise his sister in an adult setting. He ensures, as does his girlfriend, that someone is with her and she leaves the venue, rather than going to the smoking area or bar because someone had a line. That’s beyond his ‘supervision’. Frankly, asking a friend to accompany her to the toilet, was getting ridiculous.

There seems to be no responsibility put on the adult daughter. Don’t leave a venue until you’re with the whole party. It’s genuinely that simple. This whole thing could have been avoided if she had behaved rationally, not dramatically.

Hello. I’m so glad your daughter is back safe and sound. I think I’d expect an older sibling to look out for a younger one in the same way we all look out for friends when we’re out. This doesn’t mean babysit them but at least have a vague idea if they’re ok. While I get to some extent that he may have wanted to do his own thing, to not at least have been answering his phone is really poor. Going forward, I guess speak about this calmly and see how he reacts. Hopefully he will realise at the very least, he should’ve been answering his phone. With your daughter it’d perhaps be worth talking to her about options when things go wrong on an evening out although she did manage to get herself home. I’m sorry, I know this would be have been very stressful for your daughter. Best wishes.

As my last post got deleted (not sure why MN - I didn’t say anything worse than any other poster on this thread?!) I will repeat it.

What strikes me most is the fact you were up until 5 in the morning, discussing/dissecting the evening and calling your son at 4am when he was drunk and probably just wanted to go home with his gf!

People lose each other in clubs all the time. People take drugs/have sex in clubs (you don’t have to join in if that’s not for you!). Men will try and grind on you in clubs. Nothing outrageous happened to your daughter, and she needs to be told this rather than pampering to her anxieties.

What these posts show is that it's perfectly possible to go to a London club and it be absolutely fine. Despite drink, drugs and all the rest. There's no special test or requirements needed. You don't need to be cool, or savvy or anything else.

It was also fine for the daughter despite her not enjoying it.

Being in crowds, moving through lots of people, not panicking for no reason.... is.

Exactly this. Lots of people have noted that the daughter is being infantilised but what about the son?
staying up hours after DD is home and repeatedly calling him to “tell him off” aged 25.Making a huge drama out of something that would be a side note conversation for daylight hours

I can see where the daughter gets the dramatics from tbh.

For me the bigger problem would be your son's (and his girlfriend's lifestyle). I was part of that drug-taking scene in London years ago. People were doing lines of coke, but I never 'got it' really so fortunately just took it once and left it at that.
But it's dangerous behaviour. Liam Payne has just lost his life falling off a balcony while high.
Your daughter sounds far more sensible. Some posters here are keen to tell you how they went globe-trotting aged 18 and looked after themselves perfectly well, but that's not the point to me. Everyone is different. People have panic attacks. I think your son could have shown more emotional maturity - but if he's with that crowd he and his girlfriend I'm afraid will just be out for the crack and to get high. Looking after someone isn't very cool.
I feel for you but at 25, I doubt your son would listen to a tirade. I hope your daughter gets more confidence and I hope your son and his girlfriend mature, stop following the druggie superficial crowd and leave this 'phase' behind them.

If you and her dad were there as well (in London) and were the only people she could get hold of when apparently so vulnerable and unable to do anything for herself (like get in a taxi) you should have gone to get her.

It's not your son's responsibility when she didn't stay with him.

It’s pretty shit of your son to have just accepted that his sister was off somewhere when he couldn’t find her. He should have at least called or texted her to check that she was ok, and I’d be really pissed off with him for not doing that.

He should have answered his phone? In a club where you can hear fuck all? Or his phone may be on do not disturb because it's so late? And may have reception blackspots (not unusual even in cities, if you are in a basement or somewhere with particularly thick concrete walls).

Probably best to text in those situations. Anyway.

Even then it's not beyond the son's thought process that he felt his sister had just fucked off and not bothered to tell him and was pissed off and gone and run to mummy and daddy to tell tales. Or even that she'd pulled.

Please don't use silky clichés to try and belittle me like 'pearl clutcher'. Not only does it make you sound unoriginal, it's also rude and far from the case. I have a history of addiction myself and worked for many years with substance users, so please don't try to portray me as some swooning naive fool aghast at the thought of drug use, in order to frame yourself as cool and progressive. It's really not necessary.
If you believe the DS didn't act irresponsibly then we must agree to differ.