Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

Spot on.

It does sound like miscommunication to me, Op. Your DD left the club!

Omg, how mean. She’s inexperienced and unfamiliar in this scene and it was her first night out. It’s not anything to sneer at. Quite bitchy really

My brother is 4 years older than me and used to take me clubbing when I was 14/15. No matter how drunk he was or what girl he picked up he ALWAYS made sure I got in a taxi and his mates were pretty good about it as well.
He joined the Navy and I used to go and visit when I was older and even then he stuck me in a taxi back to my hotel, even when I was in my 20's and protesting I was OK!!!
Your daughter was out of her depth and her brother should have kept an eye on her, if he didn't want to do that he should have made it very clear beforehand

@Blondiebeachbabe
My MIL was married with 2 kids at 19.

Poor woman.

Did she 'get herself into trouble' at 17?

@CornishCreamTeas you also sound incredibly sheltered too then. I grew up in a tiny Cotswold village and moved away to university all by myself and figured it out. You can’t expect life to just accommodate you. The world isn’t friendly and you’ll just crumble if you are that incompetent.

Of course assaults happen, in fact I was assaulted in my tiny Cotswold hometown when I was 17 so the patronising (assaults do happen) is unnecessary. But her mum is doing her an incredible disservice by not educating her about how to safely get herself out of a dodgy situation. Everyone should be taught to be streetwise nowadays.

Does the mum expect her daughter to be closely watched by someone every single time she goes out? It just won’t happen. Friends get separated on nights out, miscommunication happens. Even if the daughter had exposure to nights out with her friends who are more experienced, there’s no guarantee it’ll go perfectly.

You need to be clued up and you can’t count on anyone else.

She's a naïve 19 year-old fgs

Not a world-weary 25 year-old

I'd certainly want to speak to him to get his perspective

Lol this is a different time. Being able to call a cab should be a basic skill not just reserved for being in London. Everyone needs to know how to call a licensed taxi at anytime of the say anywhere.

And come off it it's not like she would not know about uber. Very least have the app on the phone set up to use if needed. It's not rocket science now a days. Unless she has bee sheltered from technology.

The 'comparison' isn't the point.

The point is that the daughter should have had contingency plans in place in the event that she and her brother became separated. And that was the parents responsibility.

Otherwise, it just starts to sound a bit:

Parents can't be held responsible.

Women can't be held responsible.

Man always responsible.

I think if you’re 19 years old and going out clubbing in London getting into a black cab to get home is just a completely normal expectation.

Not if you live in the provinces where you can't just flag a taxi down and have never done this before.

You don't get it do you? And neither do most of the cool, streetwise posters who have never felt anxious about doing something outside of their comfort zone.

The lack of empathy and understanding on this thread is outstanding.

I probably did things at a much younger age than the OP's DD - travelled back from Stuttgart to London on my own aged 14 by train and night ferry, travelling up to London on my own at age 12. Taking the train to Brighton with a friend at 15 etc.

However, I remember being terrified the first time I did these things and what it was like to feel totally out of my comfort zone.

Does sneering at the OP's DD's lack of resilience and naivety make you feel better about yourselves?

Also, given that these streetwise Londoners think that they know it all, it is very clear that they know nothing about life outside their own little London bubble.

I wasn't born streetwise and confident. It came slowly. I still haven't seen anyone do coke though.

I think the biggest indication that you baby her is that you are getting involved here. At this age, I would expect your children to work out disagreements like this themselves. The whole dynamic of "look after your little sister" and telling him off for not doing it well enough is just inappropriate for a 25 year old and 19 year old.

My thoughts are this

1. what is your daughter doing for her gap year? Has she got a job or is she doing something or is she just 'opting out of life'?
2. the vibe I get is this night out wasn't initiated by either of your children. It was set up by you, and you requested your son 'look after her'
3. there's no note of concern that your son is in this environment. Why? Cos he's older? Cos he's male? Cos he's not the fragile one who always needs looking after?

Your son maybe should have looked after his sister better but it also shouldn't be a responsibility placed on his shoulders either.

I think there's a wider backstory here about the daughter who isn't transitioning to adult life outside school and is over infantilised by parents.

That's not saying lack of understanding taxis or freaking out at drugs or sexual assault etc are ok or your daughter's fault.

I just think the family dynamics here screams that son is fed up of his little sister and his parents behaviour towards his little sister. And that little sister isn't coping as well as she should for her age with difficult situations she is unfamiliar with.

And that's actually what the OP should be focussed on - not blaming her son for the night out. Her daughter ultimately was absolutely fine. What the real issue to be concerned about is whether the daughter is coping with adulthood.

Why is it daft? The OP is furious at the son when really it's her parenting fails that led to this situation, nevermind her then staying up till 4am to berate the son and girlfriend

Why would it be different in any other social situation? The daughter leaves any venue regardless of who she is with and cries because she can't get home and all because she hasn't been shown how and the OP believes it to be the fault of whoever she is with rather than hers.

The OP is failing her daughter at coping with real life situations to the point she doesn't know how to get a taxi.

This was only done because the daughter refused to go with the girlfriend.

“They said they sent her to bathroom with the friend as they trust her, yes she uses cocaine occasionally but she’s a good person. My son went to get drinks for everyone and the girlfriend was going to the smoking area and had offered to take my daughter to the bathroom after but she said she didn’t want to go the smoking area. After that they didn’t see friend again or daughter so assumed they were together doing there own thing and as much as they agreed to watch after her, they also weren’t going to stalk her.”

Sorry, but it sounds like son and girlfriend really were trying, but if girlfriend couldn’t even go for a cigarette because daughter’s refusal to go with her, then what exactly should she do? She’s on a night out, she is not solely there to babysit. Perhaps if daughter had been a bit more flexible with the people who had taken her out then none of this would have happened.

I actually feel sorry for the son and girlfriend in all this. It sounds to me like they had a sulky 19 year old with them who wasn’t willing to make any effort to understand she was joining them and that there’s a bit of give and take. Such as, if you want to stay with people you know, then if they want to go for a fag you might have to join them.

I would be disappointed, if thats was my son and his girlfriend. Although, it's not his responsibility and I would like to believe that he would be take better care of his little sister.

I'm glad she's got home safely. Through past experiences, I've drummed into my kids that they have to look out for people. To trust their guts and to buddy up.

I also grew up in a very small working class town with one taxi rank and company and no black cabs, I doubt they have Uber there now but I’ve not checked!

Yet when I first went to London or other big cities, I figured it out, I went travelling when I was 21 and to uni before that.

Just because you don’t experience things in your home town doesn’t mean you can’t have the ability to figure stuff out, growing up in a small place doesn’t mean you’re incapable of common sense thinking. It’s really quite patronising to suggest growing up outside of a big city leaves people infantilised.

You and I seem to be in the minority here. I agree with everything you say.

I grew up in London and know how to get about. I live "in the provinces" now and it is absolutely nothing like living in London in every way.

The brother did keep an eye on her. DD needed to use to toilet, he found a female friend to take her (DD’s choice - the gf offered to take her instead but she didn’t want to go to the smoking area on the way). DD left the friend and went out of the club on her own without telling anyone, then ended up getting in a cab and leaving. The brother is told by other women that his sister had safely gotten in a cab to go back to the hotel where mum & dad await.

The brother didn’t fuck off home with some girl he’d met and abandon his sister. She ran away, which is simply not something many people would be expecting an adult to do.

Agreed, it seems a strange reaction to run off just because someone was doing coke. People do coke in most clubs and bars unfortunately.

This for me.

If the two got separated what was the plan? Daughter didn't have a plan b. She either needs to be capable of coping on her own with situations or there's thought given to plan b.

It's not uncommon to go out with someone and then want to go home at a different time with everyone else for any number of reasons. The daughter was expected to be glued to her brother and his gf all night. That's got disaster written all over it being the third wheel. Of course resentment is a possibility. Not just from the son but also the gf.

I actually think it's slightly unrealistic to expect a 26 year old man and his gf to babysit the younger sister and there being no chance of a sibling argument / issue.

The whole concept of her being his ‘little sister’ is incredibly patronising, although from what the OP has said this is very much the way her adult daughter is positioned both within the family and in her own mind.

Buddying up also includes not wandering off on your own, being responsible for yourself is a key life skill.

Parenting should involve preparing your child for the real world and include teaching them on what to do in situations that are unsafe and how to recognise an unsafe situation.

If your child is that sheltered and naive amd never been to a club or used a taxi before why would you let them go without going over it with them? OP chose not to do those but expected her brother to parent the 19 year old.

Rather than realising she should have done this, she is furious and angry and the brother and the girlfriend

We all have first experiences of some sort but we also prepare ourselves or have someone to help guide us. In this case, the daughter went blindly with no advice or experience on how to cope and the OP is blaming everyone except those whose fault it is

Given that you had had the discussion with your son about watching out for your daughter, his sister, it was very poor form of him to not be contactable.

Most groups of friends go out with an understanding that no one will be forgotten about, left alone or left behind.

Any random unfortunate thing can happen that means going out alone is dangerous.

Your husband is not up to date with date rape drugs, drink spiking, phone theft, king punching .. or how ignorant and vulnerable young people actually are when moving to the city.

Perhaps your son is still looking for his sister. I would be angry and also worried about son right now. You are not over reacting.

I’ve never seen anyone or been with anyone who has been doing coke. Fortunately I don’t feel like I’m missing out at all.

The point everyone is making is that, knowing all they know about their daughter, maybe they should have prepared her a little better. It was more important in the OP's daughter's case not left and sole responsibility for her welfare does not lie with anyone else.

Her parents should have made sure she had the uber app, knew how to use it, understood basic concepts like if you go somewhere with other people, then you don't leave the venue without them.

Those things aren't about being cool or streetwise, they're basic things we begin to reach our children from when they're old enough to walk.

If she hadn't left the club, the thread wouldn't exist.