Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

Once again I find myself shocked at the poll. Of course YANBU. Yes, it was naive of her (and you) to expect there to be no drugs, but your son should absolutely have been looking after his little sister on her first night out like this. If she were a street-savvy, party-experienced 19YO then fine, but she’s not, and as her brother he would have known how naive she is. He promised to look after her and he failed.

Id think at the age of 19 you should be able to get a cab yourself. I hope she will be able to move away from home for uni and become independent.

It seems (not read any updates) you are disappointed your son made an independent decision to make friends with people he likes but who you would not approve, which is a different thing. I dont do drugs and dont know many people who do, but they are rife in many industries and he is free to chose his own friends without running them past you.

According to OP she's never used or had to use a taxi but is aware you get assaulted in one

He got someone to take her to the toilet and waited for them to come back.

The daughter went to the toilet with the chaperone and left the toilet and the club alone because the chaperone started doing a line of coke

You can't blame the son for the daughter fleeing

You make it seem like they completely left her and abandoned her.

I completely understand why she’d be feeling uncomfortable in that situation but she chose to leave the club and then try and ring him.

Its a loud club and he’s not going to be checking his phone constantly.

I get that she was panicking but I’m not sure her being on the street is safer than just staying in the club until she found him.

Him looking after her shouldn’t mean him being right next to her the whole time.

He (or his gf) is not at fault here.
But your DD isn’t either.

I would just let it go now.

If I was DD I would thank them for allowing me to go and either decide that those big club scenes are not for her or next time go with one of her friends too.

Some of these clubs are sleazy and I can see why she didn’t have a good time.

I agree.

Yes, it was an unpleasant experience for the 19 year old. However, the OTT drama is a complete over reaction. Both the OP and DD need to grow up.

The issue here is that the brother was 'keeping an eye on her' but it seems the OP was really saying, "Don't let her out of your sight for a second"

I think this is spot on.

I think you need to be careful to teach your daughter that horror stories are not day to day life, and I’m not minimising that things have happened like this but it is very much not the norm and she absolutely does need to be able to get in a cab/uber and be responsible for getting herself home as an adult.

Youre doing neither of your kids any favours really and I don’t think your son has done anything wrong, he’s completely right not to have thought he was on babysitting duty.

You're baby-ing your daughter OP.

When you go to nightclubs with friends, you may get seperated, plans change where they end up going back with some guy and you need to find your way home alone.

We've all been to a club for the first time and mostly figured it out.

I went clubbing with my DB and only found each other when it was the agreed time to leave.

You haven't prepared her on how to handle such situations.
You being shocked about men grabbing and gyrating on women is shocking in itself. Sounds like you're trying to shift the blame to your poor son.

If you knew she was a young 19, why not do your research first instead of expecting your son to babysit in a nightclub?
You need to have a plan when going out anywhere (especially London or other big cities) on what to do if you're seperated, miss the tube etc.

Use it as a learning opportunity instead of as if all men are bad including her DB.

Groping and grinding dwarfs?!

I got lost and separated from my friends the first time I went clubbing in London (not a high-end party with models like this, it was Fabric). I empathise with your daughter because I was also panicked for a moment. Dealers were offering me pills, I hadn't done drugs before and it felt like I'd never find my friends again in such a huge, dark place. I think ultimately though I was really enjoying myself - I loved the darkness and the loudness and the music. I think I just went off to dance by myself for a little while then bumped into everyone on one of the staircases. And that started off many happy clubbing years.

However while I empathise with your daughter, this can't be said enough: she abandoned the party. Your son didn't abandon her. He made sure she went to the loo with a friend, and then she was the one who ran out of the loo (ensuring she'd be on her own) and then left a club that was private guestlist only (which was bloody stupid). Being sheltered is not an excuse for either of those things: when I was sheltered and inexperienced in clubs, I made extra sure I didn't leave anywhere I couldn't get back into (and it's obvious when this is the case) and that I knew how to get home by myself if I needed to.

I'm not sure what more your son could have actually done. He left her with a friend then he was told she'd gone home of her own volition (which shouldn't have presented her with a problem). Most clubs have terrible phone signal (many are underground) and obviously no one can hear their phones so it was also obvious he was uncontactable.

So yes. I understand her mild panic but she did a couple of really silly things that he couldn't have predicted. This is on her, not him. And given that nothing bad came of it, this is exactly what a learning experience should look like.

😅😅😅
What sort of club WAS this?!

Sounds like one of Freddie Mercury's parties!

Everyone has a different upbringing. Your circumstances are not relevant here.

He specifically made sure she was accompanied to the loo (where he obviously couldn't go). He asked where she was when she didn't reappear and was told she'd gone home. He obviously didn't get any messages/calls due to poor signal until he came out of the club and talked to his mum. I'm not sure what more you think he should have done. His sister went off by herself of her own volition, not because she wasn't being looked after.

I found this very weird. Like all the Uber drivers in London are just predators just idling about waiting for someone to assault.

They aren’t, FYI. The worst thing that happens in most Ubers is just awkward conversation but you can even specify a quiet ride now if I remember correctly?

I think there’s something a bit wrong with a 19 year old with so few coping skills tbh. When the panic has passed I would definitely work on that with your daughter and how she can build on those skills. It’s fine to walk away if you feel uncomfortable in any situation but have a plan - don’t just run out blind into the street.

I’d say it’s quite relevant actually. At 19 she should be in a position to be able to say, going a girls holiday with friends (unless she has additional needs) and by the sound of it - she isn’t in that position yet.

I grew up going out in a town with one taxi company. Then I moved to a bigger town. It had a couple of taxi firms and one taxi rank. Next place I lived was the same. Never lived anywhere where you can just flag down a black cab. You can only experience what's around you.
Where I live now there is no Uber (imagine!) and the local Facebook always has posts from people asking for a reliable taxi company.
If your only experience of London cabs is the news and TV dramas how would you expect to feel?
Not saying the OP's daughter was blameless but people really seem clueless about the life experiences of those of us who didn't grow up in or anywhere near a big city. Or with money.

The taxi thing is the biggest issue imo. It's fine to not like clubbing. Shouldn't leave on your own, but she knows that now. But it's really not normal to be too scared to hail a taxi or order an uber.
She might have had a point were it 4am. But 12.30? There will be taxis/ubers everywhere still dropping people at the club.
A 19yo should be able to handle that.

Having a good time in a club isn't having your brother next to you the whole time/having your sister glued to your hip.

The son wouldn't have thought the sister couldn't take care of herself to that extent.

He didn't fail at all.

The mum failed to prepare her for such a night out and how to get out of it safely if seperated.

Being outside isn't necessarily safer from groping men in the club.

This from the OP about a nightclub says it all. But at least she admitted she is naive:
... I thought we’d moved past men thinking they have a right to a woman’s body.

Just because they were self assured and independent at OP's DD's age they are being really scornful and incredulous that she had a sheltered life and wasn't wordly wise enough to be comfortable with the situation. They should remember not all people are the same and have the same life experiences.

No-one is born "self assured and independent", they have to learn it. If RL opportunities to develop these attributes are few and far between, it requires a bit more support and effort from parents, especially if their kids grow up somewhere rural.

Whether he’s in the wrong or not really depends on why/how they got separated and how long for. If he had just gone off and left her and forgotten about her, then that is not ok at all as she didn’t know anyone and would be having a rubbish time. But if they’d just lost each other and then she’d gone in the toilets, saw the drugs and panicked, then it’s nobody’s fault really, Although he should have realised after a while and been looking for her, which means he should have looked at his phone.
As for the drugs - they are everywhere especially in clubs, it’s whether she takes them or not that matters and it doesn’t sound as thing she would.

I mean, not great of your DS to not notice someone he’s out with had been gone for two hours.

However your daughter sounds very sheltered. Crying because she saw someone else taking drugs seems a colossal overreaction. Also not sure why she needed random people to help her get a cab, surely at 19 she knows how to use Uber?

You've spoken to your son, I’d now try and move forward with encouraging her to be more independent, otherwise she’s going to really struggle and miss out on a lot.

I think this is a you failing rather than a son failing to be honest.

he is 25 and living in London - he doesn’t necessarily have a great deal of every day experience of how naive she is - especially if he’s been more confident socially. You are the ones that know where she is all the time and are aware of how sheltered she’s been. And that she would be scared to get a taxi by herself…

If you knew that about her - then let her go to an industry party without carefully prepping her in advance about what she needed to do to get herself home - then I think that’s on you.

She’s had a scare. I would a) send a message to her brother saying ‘sister got his in a taxi, she got a bit overwhelmed and left’ and b) discuss with her how she needs to make sure she is responsible for her own exit plans - whether it’s a date or a night out or a job that’s not working out.

I suspect your son will feel awful about it. But I don’t think he’s done a great deal wrong. And laying into him on her behalf it is going to do absolutely nothing for his relationship with his sister. If anyone is going to be angry with him. Let it be her. Don’t try and manage their adult relationship!

They became separated because she left the venue 🤷🏻‍♀️

I get what you're saying but the op has to toughen up her daughter. Can you imagine if the op wasn't in London.