Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

Daughter should have been able to get a taxi by herself. Brother should have looked out for her (all friends should always look out for each other when on nights out!). They both need a talking to and to chalk it up to experience.

There’s a few things that stood out in your post, and it’s that your daughter seems to be “safety conscious” to the point of catastrophic thinking.

Seeing someone else take a drug panics her so much she flees a venue (you say you’ve taught her ‘fly with the crows get shot with the crowd’) - presumably because she thinks that the girl taking cocaine was somehow putting HER in danger? I mean it’s not ideal, but it’s not an immediate risk to your daughter to be in the company of someone who’s done a line of coke.

She was afraid of getting a cab because of stories she’s heard of women getting cabs being harmed - well yes, this happens and it’s awful. Particularly unlicensed cabs are dangerous. But millions of lone women get licensed black cabs in London every week, and are perfectly fine. Good to be safety aware, but unhealthy to be so anxious about it.

I suspect that this isn’t the only thing she gets overly anxious about.

It sounds to me like she’s had a very sheltered life, and possibly absorbed some parental messaging around safety that’s been a bit too anxiety-led, and unfortunately now that’s coming home to roost. I think if you want to send your daughter out into the world able to meet all of its challenges- and feel confident to enjoy all that life has got to offer - without becoming a nervous wreck, it’s your responsibility as parents to perhaps explore with her whether her anxiety levels are proportionate and well managed, and if not, perhaps explore some counseling.

Of course they should look out for each other.

The issue here is that the brother was 'keeping an eye on her' but it seems the OP was really saying, "Don't let her out of your sight for a second"

He has interpreted that as he doesn't need to chaperone her to the loo. When that's the level of supervision the OP expected.

He probably hasn't been required to supervise another adult to that degree before so the OP needed to be explicit in her expectations.

People are saying that she is inexperienced in clubs so it's his fault she left the club. Whereas, he might be inexperienced in chaperoning and didn't realise that might happen and was unaware of the potential consequences.

He isn't his sister's parent nor does he have the wisdom and life experience they do.

When my son and daughter (26 and 18 respectively) went to London for the weekend in the summer, I took him to one side and pointed out some of the ways in which her thinking might be less mature than his. Because I wouldn't expect him to automatically know that.

I also made sure they knew what to do in event of an emergency etc.

It sounds as though the OP's expectations of her son were high but also that she hadn't made them explicitly clear to him.

The daughter should also have been aware that you don't leave the group you are with and leave the venue.

I can see both sides

Your son presumably knows how nervous dd and you are so shouldn’t have agreed to look after her.

You have done your dd a disservice by doing things like not teaching her how to take a cab or public transport so she can get home. You’ve also told her to run from drug taking but encouraged her to go to a club? While she may not have seen people doing lines before, I find it hard to believe that she’s never seen someone smoking weed. Does your dd go to university? Does she have her car hence the fear of cabs?

I hope you’ve all got some sleep now and are feeling calmer about the whole thing.

Yes, your DS should have kept a closer eye on her. But he’s 25, going on a night out where there’ll be lots of alcohol (and the coke was predictable, even if you/DD didn’t predict it). I think it’s naive to expect him to be as proactive as you seemed to expect. From his point of view his sister is an adult, legally there.

But I think it’s also a lesson for you that your DD needs to build up her capability to be independent. She needs to be able to take a deep breath and deal with it when things go wrong. Panicking because she saw someone doing drugs, or got touched on the waist, is not generally age-appropriate. Honestly I was sheltered by my parents, I was wrapped in cotton wool, totally shocked the first time I saw drugs etc, and it did not do me any favours.

when I first came to London I was in awe of my new friends who grew up in London, They were so worldly, articulate and quick on their feet in conversation - I genuinely wondered if they prepared and practiced anecdotes of funny and relevant stories to seamlessly deploy in conversation in advance. I was also shocked at the casual attitudes to drugs. I felt like a stupid child in comparison and it took a few years to stop feeling like this.

I think it can be hard to appreciate the depths of naivety of adults from working class small towns in other parts of the UK when they first come to London. Especially since having no access to money meant a lot of us weren’t getting exposed to more worldly things or people by virtue of travelling abroad or clubbing outside of our local areas.

How will your daughter cope if she goes to Uni? Part of parenting is preparing them for the real world and how to survive in life.

I know people parent differently but I'm really surprised a 19 year old doesn't know how to get a taxi? Especially in London where there's no shortage of black cabs. You said she's worried about being abused in one, has this come from you? That taxis aren't safe places?

It's fine to never have been to a nightclub and you've said yourself that you are sheltered but your daughter needs to learn some resilience and given practical advice on how to deal with real life situations

Daughter chose to go. Daughter had been to a swanky restaurant beforehand with all the friends of her brother. She chose to carry on to the nightclub with these people. She could've gone home at that point.
Daughter chose to leave the club without telling anyone.

I think if you’re 19 years old and going out clubbing in London getting into a black cab to get home is just a completely normal expectation.

As should be having the general understanding/ability to get that cab.

Young people going to uni on their own at 18 are doing this literally every day, it’s not really understandable that a 19 year old wouldn’t be able to do this.

I was about that age when I first saw people doing drugs. At my sisters house party in fact. I recall it was a bit scary, people’s eyes look scary as the pupils change along with their behaviour. You get used to it but I totally empathise with your daughter feeling freaked out by it, especially with the messaging around how awful drugs are. I definitely felt looked after my sister though, and I certainly wasn’t dealing with creepy men as her friends were all decent. Your son should have been looking out for her. Your anger is justified.

The brother was probably oblivious to all the drama. How was he to know his sister had left the venue? That's when it went wrong; she left and couldn't get back in. She then panicked and had to be helped into a cab by a group of women. Hopefully she's learnt from the experience. I don't think the brother deserves a telling off. Besides he's 25, what you going to do, ground him?

Exactly, she’s the one who decided to wander off outside on her own, he wasn’t babysitting.

We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.

If this had been our DD, my husband would have jumped in a cab and gone to the club to meet her and bring her back to the hotel.

She could have asked the doorman to wait inside or at the door while she waited for a cab.

Why did you feel this was your son's responsibility and not yours?

I know "golden child" is a favourite MN instant diagnosis, but that strikes me as ludicrous. It's impossible to reasonably infer all that from the single incident we have been told about. It’s not at all unreasonable to expect a 26-year-old man to keep an eye out for his much younger sister in an environment he knew she was unused to, especially as he had said he would.

If it was the first time she had ever been to a club like that, and was not with her own group of friends, it’s perfectly natural that she panicked if she’s a shy, timid person.

However, having said that, I don’t think he really did much wrong. He couldn’t have been expected to watch her the whole time, wouldn’t have known she'd gone outside and wouldn't have heard his phone.

I think there’s some learning points for your dd from this night out.
Being escorted to the toilet/ bar etc shouldn’t be necessary but staying in the club and looking around until you’ve found your group is what people generally do.
If you can’t find your group, you should be able to get yourself a taxi.
Getting separated does happen and not everyone checks their phones every five minutes.
I wouldn’t be beyond angry, ds thought dd was with a friend and wasn’t to know that she would decide to leave the club.
Dd has time in her gap year to develop her confidence with unfamiliar situations, so I’d focus on that.

Oh don't be silly.

This is a 19 yr old who doesn't know London and it's easy to be overwhelmed.

London is not like other small towns or cities. She's already been subjected to girls using coke in the loos.

I got pregnant at 19 I had to grow up quickly.

How exactly should he have ‘looked out for her’ here?

Should he have accompanied her to the loo?? They were in a noisy club, perfectly understandable he wouldn’t hear his phone!

Shes the one who wandered off outside on her own, he’s her brother not her babysitter, she’s an adult.

Agree with this. So many young adults are infantalized now. I would expect this naivety of a 10 year old not a 19 year old.

The OP hasn’t said anything about her DD being offered, invited to use or get involved in any way in what that girl was doing. She has also not said anything about her DS being in that scene, they might have had discussions and we don’t know if DS consumes. No one (other than DS’s gf and her silly response) is taking drug consumption lightly.

@Fruhstuck The son wasn't there!

The DD had gone out with his girlfriend's mates.

I’m just struggling with a 19 year old fleeing out of a club, like Cinderella as the clock approaches midnight, because someone did coke in her vicinity. And that being your son’s issue. Sounds like he and his girlfriend did try and keep an eye on her, but she wouldn’t go to the smoking area, so was left in the ‘care’ (can’t believe I typed that) of one of their friends. Your daughter really should learn if she isn’t comfortable with people other than family and friends, then she will really need to flex a bit if one of them wants to go somewhere on a night out. They aren’t there to pander to what she wants. Genuinely, I’d be annoyed having this conversation at 2am with my mother if a sibling pulled this nonsense.

I think maybe it's time to help your daughter learn things like how to call a taxi (or get a bus), how to send text messages to her brother, and how to make her own friends. You are doing her no favours with all this.

It's fine to not want to go out to bars. If it's not for her, that's fine. I don't think it's anything to do with her brother or really with you, at this age, you need to let them have their own relationship with each other without you getting so overinvolved.

You're being very ignorant here.

Have you lived in London?

Do you know how to flag down a black cab? Especially at night when there aren't many, or they are full, or they don't see you?

Or if you're going to be safe in one on your own?

Honestly, the comments here are incredible.

I don’t think that’s the point… you know it as well… he could have at the very least called her to check she’s ok…as a brother and as a relatively vulnerable young girl in London… common sense and decency-