“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

Are they definitely talking about their teachers?

In England, it's normal to refer to the teachers by title + surname but the TAs by their first name.

One school I used to regularly visit as an advisory teacher used ‘Sir’ and ‘Madam’.

Entirely usual! Pupils will also say mr name
Ms name,
Mrs name, or even Mx whatever ( pronounced mix) … our school had a trans teacher who insisted on first name and had to choose something else because the kids REALLY struggled with remembering to use an actual name.

I bumped into an old teacher of mine a few months back and called her ‘Miss’
!
it’s ingrained…

Sure. But many interactions don’t require names. Eg holding a door open for a teacher “thank you”, “you’re welcome”. No need to say “you’re welcome sir/miss”

At our secondary everyone is referred to as miss and sir. This includes the children if the teacher doesn't know them e.g when the head or other welcome them in the morning at the gates.

When I was at school, it was Miss or Mrs Surname. There was only one male teacher and he was Mr Surname.

But that was a private, all-girls' school in the 70s/80s. So yes, it was a surprise to me when I found out that not all schools follow the same etiquette.

I just asked ds2 (state secondary, co-ed) and all teachers get called Sir or Miss, apparently.

@notacooldad I remember when my daughter went to Rainbow Guides the girls often called the leaders "Miss" rather than their name (or do they use Brown Owl in Rainbows - I can't remember).

We used the in the 90s and school at DC uses now.

Exactly that and who cares? I think that you are looking to find problems where there aren't any.

They will have quite a few teachers, substitutes, assistants. Plus they do communicate with other teachers in the school. There is a staff of 100+ in my school. It's an easy way for them to address a teacher.

Ah, I think I have got the gist of what you are thinking🤔……Sir is ok, but Miss isn’t, somehow not as reverential in its undertones. Is this part of the issue?

I trained as a teacher, and right from day one, every single school I did teaching practice in, and there were a few, used the exact same “Sir and Miss” form of address. It was exactly the same as I had done in the late 1960’s and all through secondary, sixth form in the 1970’s. I didn’t end up teaching, but managed a Sports Centre on a school campus, and there the children called me Miss, and my staff Sir or Miss. It was simply a form of address from children to adults in charge. They sometimes gave us our full surnames as well. A PP has clarified the historical perspective somewhere around Schoolmaster and Schoolmistress.

It seems to be pretty standard in my sons' school. I was a bit surprised because we always referred to our teachers as Mr/Mrs/Miss + Surname back in the olden days😆 There would have been a Paddington hard stare if we'd used Miss or Sir.

It's as sexist as fuck (in my school female teachers were called "madam" rather than "miss") but totally normal, yes.

This is 100% normal. Been teaching nearly 20 years and always been called ‘miss’ even though I’ve been ‘Mrs’ for 15 years. We even call each other Miss and sir.

In my school some thirty years ago we used Mr, Mrsor Ms.

it was an all girls grammar and there is no way a man would have been called sir while a woman called the childish Miss! And that was in the 90s. Can’t believe this ridiculousness is still happening.

I went to 2 UK high school (I’m mid thirties) and they both used Sir and Miss. The high school my kid’s go to also use Sir and Miss. I thought it was everywhere.

At my DD school ( she left 3 years off) the teachers with PhD were called Dr, but otherwise Sir and Miss were normal.

Yeah, like I'm in Ireland and even the Principal is Maria(name changed to protect identity and because I can't actually remember it and that's going to bug me until the kids get home and I can ask them).

Is it? Not in my experience. TAs are Miss/name in my school.

Miss and Sir are usual in mine and my children’s secondary school.

Funnily enough one of the male teachers today commented on the difference and suggested we all become Dame not Miss. Not Dame, think they settled on Your Lady.

Ive been 'Miss' for 27 years as a teacher.

We had teachers with PhD s at our school so it would be Dr Smith or Miss or Dr Jones/sir depending how much of her attention you’re trying to get

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

Why do you think it is sexist, bearing in mind it is children who are using this form of address. Just wondering.

I used to do a volutantry thing in secondary schools so I’ve been in lots and this is the norm. It never occurred to me it’s disrespectful. I think expecting formal titles like Dr and full names sounds a bit more like a private school

Seems massively sexist to me.

Sir / Miss for me in the 80s, my sister in 90s and my DCs at school now. Used Mr / Mrs Surname too sometimes and if talking about a specific teacher. And there were a couple of Drs. But generally this is absolutely normal for UK secondary (and primary for that matter).