“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

Yeah, I’m not calling the individual children lazy. It’s more the culture of “how could children possibly learn the teachers names” is lazy. It’s perfectly possible for children to learn names and use them correctly.

😁 That’s a lovely response. It’s not easy for children trying to negotiate every day life, they don’t want criticising for every little formal slip up. BIL was a teacher, his standard response to “Sir, do you have a pen?” Was “Yes, thank you”.

He knows my name.
He uses my name.
He also calls me miss or mate.

I'm 32, live in the UK and at primary school every one was 'Miss/Mrs so and so' or 'Mr...' it was only when I got to secondary school that everyone was 'Miss' or 'Sir'

Yes, totally normal in secondary schools, though some schools have 'Ma'am' instead of 'Miss' in an attempt to address the imbalance between 'Miss' and 'Sir'.

Well, I went to school in Greater London and we called our teachers Mr Smith and Mrs Jones and only heard teachers called Miss or Sir on Grange Hill.

It's interchangeable. Sometimes I'm Ms Puff (I'm very much a Ms, always have been before, during & after marriage & now whilst I'm living in sin😁 and the kids do say Ms not Mrs) sometimes I'm Miss, as the kids do use that as the generic.

Those suggesting they use our first names or mate can go & taken running jump.

I was told to 'Calm down, bro' recently: that didn't end well.🤣

Agreed, the children manage fine.
I sometimes struggle to work out if my DS is talking about a student or teacher though. 'Lucy walked into the classroom with a spider on her back and Erin started screaming and climbed on to a chair. It was so funny'. Me thinking I haven't heard about Erin before - is she a new kid? No she's a fill in teacher.

What matters most is children and teachers having positive and respectful relationships. I was just surprised that the culture of not using full names for members is so prevalent.

@InWalksBarberalla
In my country teachers either go by their given names (more common in primary) or title and lastname (more common in secondary) and everyone manages just fine. Much like people do in large workplaces.
What is the name of the secretary from three floors below ?
What is the name of the first year trainee from the Portsmouth office ?
GIVE OVER
In big organisations we use "sir" and "madam" and "my dear" as short hand for
"I accept you"
because names change all the time

It certainly is.

I was always called Ms echt by the children in my Melbourne secondary school and I never saw or heard of any induction that told these children from a good number of primary schools to say this, so I infer that's it's the custom here.

My DD attended three schools and all teachers were Ms/Mr surname.

I'm pretty sure Australian children are no brighter than those in the UK, just that the standard for courteous addressing of staff is set higher and they all manage it.

On a personal note, after 25+ years in UK schools, where I was accustomed to being Miss, I was delighted to be called by my title and surname, it really does sound better.

Most of the teachers in a secondary school won’t be ‘their’ teachers so they probably won’t know their names. For a lot of them, anyway.

This has been common for decades. It was what we said at secondary school in the 1970s.

My primary school headmistress didn't allow it though (1960s). Any new pupil who tried to call her "Miss" was told "Teachers in this school have names. I am Miss X".

What I find odd is teachers referring to each other as "Miss" or "Sir" rather by their names (when speaking to pupils).

ooh, I've just remembered

my friend taught music in a posh London school for a couple of years in the 90s after she graduated

The male teachers were Mr Surname; the female teachers were Miss Firstname.

That's sexist.

(and quite funny, given that my friend's first name was one of the stereotypically common ones - sorry T, if you're reading...)

What are you talking about? People would think I'd gone crazy if I started calling people at my work place 'sir/madam/my dear'. If I'm interacting with someone I haven't meet before I say 'hi I'm my name, etc' and they respond with their name. We don't start 'sir-ing' at each other.

It's Miss in prisons too! Perhaps a hangover from school. Though not actually sure what male officers/legal visitors are called.

Yes. I have a PhD and I am referred to as Miss in the school I teach in. I do detest the Miss/Sir thing. But it is very very common across secondary schools - nothing unusual about this at all.

Absolutely normal. I don't have issues with it.

Just to add, this is a wider problem than schools. Mr versus Miss/Mrs is a massive issue where male titles are more respected than female ones. That is reflected by the Miss/Sir in schools.

@InWalksBarberalla
How did you address the cleaner last time they emptied your bin
or does your office pay those people to stay out of your hours

We didn't use sir or miss and I still managed just fine.

DD left swapped to college at age 16 back in mid 00s. Her college tutors did mention they loved the way she called them 'miss' when we went to her end of term presentation.

I do think it is something we should be pushing to change. Sure I prefer miss over the “ this is a pile of fucking shit” form of address that one also gets in a comp, but I do not think it is too much to expect kids to learn the names of their approx 20 teachers. Of course i am not expecting them to learn the names of subs/ all the staff but i am expected to learn the names of the 350+ kids i teach every cycle, and I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask the kids to learn our names as a mark of politeness and respect.

FFS
This thread started about Open Days
not lessons
should EVERY child know the name of EVERY teacher with whom they may never have a lesson
GIVE OVER
and
Heads / SLT only know the names of prefects and naughty kids
as all teachers are aware

Well it's been at least a decade since I've been in an office with individual bins, but when I come across people whose name I don't know I'll give a hello, or a how's your day going, or just a nod, or a smile. Depending on the context. Nobody goes about saying 'good day sir' to strangers they momentarily interact with.