New Lucy Letby details

[Mrsdoyler]

Did you see today in the news that LucyLetby originally failed her nursing training.

Reason: Lack of empathy

Harold Shipman? Beverly Allitt? Those were circumstantial in that there was no eyewitness testimony or “hard” evidence. Murders in medical settings are almost always based on circumstantial evidence, doesn’t mean nurses should have free rein to go around murdering patients because there’ll be no “hard” evidence to convict them on.

You clearly don't understand the nature of evidence or what is meant by circumstantial evidence.

I beg to differ. You kind of need to have evidence a person was murdered rather than died of natural causes in order to prosecute someone for murder.

You clearly don’t understand the difference between hard evidence and circumstantial evidence.

but the jury looked at all the circumstantial evidence and decided she was guilty beyond reasonable doubt, so really it doesn’t matter one iota if me, you or any randomer on here thinks she did it or not. (For what it’s worth I think the circumstantial evidence is as solid as you’ll get in a case like this).

If some credible evidence comes up that might’ve been missed then you’d expect the court of appeal to allow it to be heard, but so far they haven’t. She also hasn’t filed any motions suggesting she didn’t get a fair trial due to her defence team which would be the first thing you’d think she’d do if they’d missed loads of crucial evidence.

Oh, I do, thanks.

Just because the jury was convinced, does not make them right cited :

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/07/majority-verdicts-facilitated-56-miscarriages-of-justice-in-england-and-wales-charity-says

Well, you have to prove the baby was murdered don't you.

In these cases the babies had been autopsied, by regular pathologists not trained in neonatal work, and the bodies dispositioned by cremation or burial so no further investigation could take place.

This is a neonatal unit where life hangs by a thread, and one with big problems and a poor reputation, how then do we prove murder and not death by natural means?

If we can't conclusively prove murder, how can we find someone guilty of that murder?

There are eye witness accounts, her falsified records, manipulation through message's and deceit and covering tracks by altering timelines - with phone records proving the parents testimony not Letby’s

But that’s a huge assumption she’s made about how the police investigated that I’m not sure she knows anything about. The police didn’t even assume any of the babies had been murdered at the start. And they separated each death out and investigated them with individual teams to make that decision as far as I can remember.

Assuming that the review commissioned by the hospital was the royal college one. I believe that they asked someone to look into the deaths and having looked at them they suggested some needed forensic investigation. Suspect this will come up during the inquiry as a missed opportunity.

Nope it doesn’t but it does mean they had a hell of a lot more insight as to the extent of the evidence than any of us.

There was forensic evidence.
In the case of Harold Shipman. They exhumed the body of a victim, Ms Grundy, and a pathologist found she’d been injected with a lethal dose of diamorphine which was found in her muscle tissues.

For Beverly Alitt, they found potassium chloride in the bloodstream of victims which is a poison that causes cardiac arrest.

but then none of the jury were medical experts with no medical training so put a fancy story teller on the stand and volla ,

Yep - and where’s the hard evidence linking them to that? Any forensic evidence that Harold Shipman injected that diamorphine? Any eyewitness testimony that he administered it? Or was it that he’d been to her house that afternoon, so circumstantial? And how is that different here, when they’re saying “this baby had an air embolism” and the circumstantial evidence shows that only person who could’ve administered that was Lucy?

Put a fancier defence expert on the stand and counteract it then - oh wait, they didn’t have any they could use.

She didn’t assume, it’s all there. The hospital referred only the deaths and collapses where Lucy was on duty to the police to investigate. Of course the police are going to see the “single thread” that runs through them all.

There was a bit of "old fashioned" Agatha Christie style police work involved too - a typewriter borrowed from Mrs grundy to type falsified wills - and he cracked under interrogation and fessed up, which helped.

Except there was no forensic evidence of air embolism.

The air embolism was a hypothesis by a long retired not so expert witness based on skin discolouration described in a report that the author of the research paper on air embolisms stated had been applied incorrectly.

Coincidence can be used to find someone guilty. There was far too many coincidences!

The police looked at all cases but some of them there will not have been enough evidence to charge her with and so she may have got away with those

You do not know her whereabouts or involvement when those other 6 babies sadly passed

The parents have also spoken publicly and said it’s like a knife to them all over again when people come out and defend her

I mean, she wrote confession notes, not the same, not as reliable, but indicative nevertheless

The same with the insulin theory.
Zero forensic evidence that any insulin had been injected in the babies. The blood test that showed it specifically stated it cannot be used for forensics as it cannot distinguish between synthetic insulin and insulin produced by the pancreas.

So where was the defence expert testifying this?

I’m not a medical expert by any means (clearly!) but there was a lot of evidence regarding c-peptide levels which were low, which could only be the case if it was administered. She admitted this on the stand.

@LoremIpsumCici

The evidence was a rash that was found on many of the children and air bubbles that were found in scans

Fair enough that the findings were based on a paper that could be challenged but the fact these babies had large bubbles of air within them was simply not normal

Well, we know she wasn’t at the hospital when the other deaths and collapses happened.

You’d think the parents would want to be 100% sure justice has been met.