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New Lucy Letby details

1000 replies

Mrsdoyler · 16/10/2024 20:51

Did you see today in the news that LucyLetby originally failed her nursing training.

Reason: Lack of empathy

OP posts:
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27
DalRiata · 18/10/2024 07:53

kkloo · 17/10/2024 22:55

The empathy thing is a complete red herring.

It's not like there's a standard where they will allow people to be health professionals only if they're an emphatic person and they don't if they're not.

It's part of the training because they are expected to act a certain way even if it's not who they are.
Of course it seems once they pass that can go out the window as many of us have stories of health professionals being cold and lacking empathy.

I've complained about people before and specifically said that they need some empathy training. It's not going to change them as a person but instead hopefully teach them how they should be acting in certain situations.

Except its a known factor in dangerous psychopaths and sociopaths who have killed in the past?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/10/2024 07:56

Bowies · 17/10/2024 22:36

The court transcripts and police interview transcripts are available on youtube

The entire transcripts without editing other than necessary redactions for anonymity? That would be a lot of hours of video.

GossIsAGit · 18/10/2024 08:02

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 07:28

Ah, so David Davis is not capable of using the internet, as well as being “mendacious, conceited, vain, duplicitous, wholly unfit for office” (as described when being caught out lying to parliament).

Figures for someone who's been foolish enough to publicly hitch their wagon to this creature.

Edited

A full transcript is available on line at no cost?
I don’t think so.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 18/10/2024 08:14

DalRiata · 18/10/2024 07:51

Even if she wasn't around for Baby C's death, that doesn't mean she didn't make attempts to sabotage the child's life before that.. which would have prompted the same ghoulish fascination with the family?

I think people make a mistake thinking of her going around wanting to kill kill kill. I don't think that's it, she loved playing God, fragile lives hanging in the balance, the drama of it. Which of her little tweaks would tip them over the edge and would they be able to recover from it or not. I can believe sometimes she helped the babies stabilise from her acts of sabotage. Have you never watched a cat play with a mouse? The fun is in the game, it doesn't just want to kill the mouse outright. Sometimes the game means the mouse gets away altogether and thats a risk the cat is willing to make. I can believe there were more babies than we know whose lives she messed with but likely in subtle ways, I think she built up the game slowly, she didn't just begin one day and go from 0-100. It would have been tiny little acts first and it all fed into this addiction to the feeling of power over life and death. If you look into any stories of childhood abuse, it always starts off small and then grows as the abuser becomes more and make addicted to the thrills they get from hurting and weilding power.

Well firstly, you have things arse about face with regard to Baby C. She didn't come into contact with that infant until the day of its final collapse so no, she couldn't have "sabotaged" by pumping air into them down an NG tube previously, as suggested by an x-ray taken the day before and which formed the basis of this charge. Dewi Evans when realising this AFTER THE TRIAL revised the cause of death retrospectively to death by intravenous air embolism on the day of death. That raises huge questions about the validity of his evidence in this case and as a whole.

Secondly, it's interesting that the "burn the witch" contingent are criticising both professionals and amateurs for questioning the medical evidence, which should be the foundation of this case, yet will confidently play armchair psychologist analysing and casting judgement on Lucy Letbts character and behaviour and surmised "motivation".

As far as I am aware, and I have searched, no psychiatric or psychological evaluation formed part of the evidence presented at court. Which either means there weren't any, or any findings were helpful neither to the prosecution nor the defence.

It did come out after the trial, that the alleged "confession" notes were part of therapeutic writing exercises recommended by a therapist to help her work through her feelings about what was going on. Why this wasn't highlighted at trial to rebut the certainty of those ramblings being any sort of coherent confession I have no idea.

There is so much about the way this case was handled that appears to run in direct opposition to "due process" that without a proper review, the justice system as it stands in the case if complex medical evidence is not fit for purpose.

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:35

GossIsAGit · 18/10/2024 08:02

A full transcript is available on line at no cost?
I don’t think so.

Others answered that, why are you quoting me??

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:38

Why this wasn't highlighted at trial to rebut the certainty of those ramblings being any sort of coherent confession I have no idea.

It was!

And ateotd iit was one tiny item in a vast case.

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:42

As usual, a handful of MNers believe Letby's defence team was a bunch of bozos and they could do better than them.

But somehow they're all strangely silent on the subject of what they have done and are doing in real life to spearhead campaigns against this gigantic "miscarriage of justice".

The silence was deafening when I asked that of the leader of the LL campaign on here. Strange given she chooses to post hundreds of posts in every thread on the subject, ad nauseum.
And my post was reported very quickly indeed & deleted.

Maybe it's all secret & confidential.
🙄

Dramatic · 18/10/2024 09:44

Firefly1987 · 18/10/2024 00:46

She did kill baby C-she was there when he collapsed a final time, maybe Dr Evans got it wrong about an earlier event but she was responsible for the final collapse. And there is proof of overfeeding and insulin and deliberate harm (liver and throat injury) even if you take air embolism out of it.

So "being there" is now proof beyond reasonable doubt that she did it?

GossIsAGit · 18/10/2024 09:45

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:35

Others answered that, why are you quoting me??

Edited

Your post was the most recent as far as I could see.
I haven’t seen you either provide evidence or admit error so it was a fair question.

Dramatic · 18/10/2024 09:46

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:42

As usual, a handful of MNers believe Letby's defence team was a bunch of bozos and they could do better than them.

But somehow they're all strangely silent on the subject of what they have done and are doing in real life to spearhead campaigns against this gigantic "miscarriage of justice".

The silence was deafening when I asked that of the leader of the LL campaign on here. Strange given she chooses to post hundreds of posts in every thread on the subject, ad nauseum.
And my post was reported very quickly indeed & deleted.

Maybe it's all secret & confidential.
🙄

Edited

I think things like Dewi Evans being a notoriously unreliable "expert" and nurses/doctors being warned off being defense witnesses is enough to make people question things, let alone the lack of hard evidence.

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:49

GossIsAGit · 18/10/2024 09:45

Your post was the most recent as far as I could see.
I haven’t seen you either provide evidence or admit error so it was a fair question.

Why would I do that ... I didn't answer that question. It wouldn't be my error to admit. If there has been any error.

And you haven't provided evidence or admitted error for any of your opinions. That would fill up the rest of the thread.

AderynBach · 18/10/2024 09:49

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:42

As usual, a handful of MNers believe Letby's defence team was a bunch of bozos and they could do better than them.

But somehow they're all strangely silent on the subject of what they have done and are doing in real life to spearhead campaigns against this gigantic "miscarriage of justice".

The silence was deafening when I asked that of the leader of the LL campaign on here. Strange given she chooses to post hundreds of posts in every thread on the subject, ad nauseum.
And my post was reported very quickly indeed & deleted.

Maybe it's all secret & confidential.
🙄

Edited

Well, it's a pretty silly question, isn't it? People are entitled to express an opinion without being grilled by you about something that's none of your business.

If you're so bothered then don't keep posting, let it turn into a boring echo chamber and fizzle out. But you seem to get something out of sniping and sneering at everyone.

GossIsAGit · 18/10/2024 09:50

Dramatic · 18/10/2024 09:44

So "being there" is now proof beyond reasonable doubt that she did it?

That is in fact the evidence in every case: she was there and she killed or harmed all the others - even when she wasn’t there to poison the feedbag with insulin or when she wasn’t there to inject air into Baby C. It’s worse than circumstantial.

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:53

Dramatic · 18/10/2024 09:46

I think things like Dewi Evans being a notoriously unreliable "expert" and nurses/doctors being warned off being defense witnesses is enough to make people question things, let alone the lack of hard evidence.

Yet the juries and judges who lived and breathed it for months don't agree.

And, to return to my question which you ignored, what the posters leading the campaign on here in defence of Letby doing in real life to put their money where their mouth is??
Where is the courage of their convictions?

This is according to them, an massive, outrageous and horrific miscarriage of justice - if I believed that I wouldn't be writing hundreds of posts on forums, while doing absolutely nothing in real life. After all, MN posters have no say in what happens re the case. They'll just chat about it and go on with their day.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 18/10/2024 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:55

AderynBach · 18/10/2024 09:49

Well, it's a pretty silly question, isn't it? People are entitled to express an opinion without being grilled by you about something that's none of your business.

If you're so bothered then don't keep posting, let it turn into a boring echo chamber and fizzle out. But you seem to get something out of sniping and sneering at everyone.

A silly question...... To the contrary I'd say it's a extremely pertinent question.

How could you feel so intensely about such a ln appalling miscarriage of justice and research if so much that you consider yourself very knowledgeable on many aspects of it, but not actually attempt to do anything about it??

GossIsAGit · 18/10/2024 09:56

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:49

Why would I do that ... I didn't answer that question. It wouldn't be my error to admit. If there has been any error.

And you haven't provided evidence or admitted error for any of your opinions. That would fill up the rest of the thread.

Check your sources before making accusations based on non-existent evidence and I won’t need to respond.

I have provided quite a few pieces of evidence for my opinions: eg relevant quotations and documents.

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 10:01

This reply has been withdrawn

Quotes a deleted post.

OrangeGreens · 18/10/2024 10:01

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:55

A silly question...... To the contrary I'd say it's a extremely pertinent question.

How could you feel so intensely about such a ln appalling miscarriage of justice and research if so much that you consider yourself very knowledgeable on many aspects of it, but not actually attempt to do anything about it??

Edited

This is incredibly silly. There are already legal and scientific experts at the highest level exploring whether this may have been a miscarriage of justice. There is already fairly regular news coverage of developments suggesting it could have been. What is some random mumsnetter going to be able to achieve in addition to that?

This is just a forum for us to discuss our opinions and experiences. Just as you are doing.

Holotropic · 18/10/2024 10:04

OrangeGreens · 18/10/2024 10:01

This is incredibly silly. There are already legal and scientific experts at the highest level exploring whether this may have been a miscarriage of justice. There is already fairly regular news coverage of developments suggesting it could have been. What is some random mumsnetter going to be able to achieve in addition to that?

This is just a forum for us to discuss our opinions and experiences. Just as you are doing.

If you mean during the two trials, those reports won’t have been to investigate whether this was a miscarriage of justice.

AderynBach · 18/10/2024 10:06

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:55

A silly question...... To the contrary I'd say it's a extremely pertinent question.

How could you feel so intensely about such a ln appalling miscarriage of justice and research if so much that you consider yourself very knowledgeable on many aspects of it, but not actually attempt to do anything about it??

Edited

I'm still at a loss as to which part of that is any of your business. It's clearly meant as some kind of gotcha to the poster who has been interested in this case for a while. She's as entitled to express her views as anyone else is without justifying it to you.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 18/10/2024 10:09

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:55

A silly question...... To the contrary I'd say it's a extremely pertinent question.

How could you feel so intensely about such a ln appalling miscarriage of justice and research if so much that you consider yourself very knowledgeable on many aspects of it, but not actually attempt to do anything about it??

Edited

How precisely can average Jo do something about a miscarriage of justice when they have nothing to do with the case?

Sign a petition? Write to one's MP? Complain? All possible, but in this case public figures in authority are doing things from the top down. Which is unusual for a start.

No-one in their right mind in a professional position would risk being seen as a baby killer supporter without good reason. And before you scoff and bring up Lord Longford and Myra Hindley, the cases are hardly comparable, and also Hanrattys supporters conceded quietly that yes he was guilty when the DNA evidence confirmed it.

Why are you so determined to shout down people asking legitimate questions ?

Oh, and that the notes were made on the advice of a therapist only came to light a year after the trial - how convenient for the prosecution that they turned up out of context in the trial. She didn't write them spontaneously after all, a therapist advised her to. That to my mind is pertinent to context.

OrangeGreens · 18/10/2024 10:10

Holotropic · 18/10/2024 10:04

If you mean during the two trials, those reports won’t have been to investigate whether this was a miscarriage of justice.

???? Obviously not. I’m talking about what has happened since.

Mrsdoyler · 18/10/2024 10:27

HazelPlayer · 18/10/2024 09:42

As usual, a handful of MNers believe Letby's defence team was a bunch of bozos and they could do better than them.

But somehow they're all strangely silent on the subject of what they have done and are doing in real life to spearhead campaigns against this gigantic "miscarriage of justice".

The silence was deafening when I asked that of the leader of the LL campaign on here. Strange given she chooses to post hundreds of posts in every thread on the subject, ad nauseum.
And my post was reported very quickly indeed & deleted.

Maybe it's all secret & confidential.
🙄

Edited

It's not that serious @hazelplayer. This is an Internet chat forum. People discuss topics on here. Always

Are you actually now saying that people can't discuss a topic on here, without spearheading a campaign in real life?

Does that sound realistic? Or do you think that it s you who is being overdramatic?

Get a grip

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 18/10/2024 10:34

I have a suspicion that someone wants to get this thread deleted as they feel so strongly about the subject for whatever reason.

It was a tactic used on the Covid Board back in the day. The State of Fear threads were much missed. Just waiting for a "far right" accusation to be shoehorned in....

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