Thoughts on schools with high SEN population

[Dinoswearunderpants]

Hi

Hoping I don't get flamed here but I visited my first infant school yesterday as DS is due to start school next year.

I did not get a good feel for the school. It's classed as Outstanding but it felt utterly chaotic. It was like a maze and I appreciate the kids will likely just go from their room to the playroom/hall.

The school also said they have a high population of SEN children. This was evident as I saw at least 10 children walking around. They were in and out of the class rooms or doing various other activities. This clearly was disrupting other pupils.

They often had two kids to one adult. The class sizes are already large with three classes of 30 per year.

I appreciate schools have changed drastically since I went but I just didn't get a good feel.

There's one other school locally I'm due to view and that's classed as Good. They had a third less pupils and lower SEN.

I'm just wondering what things I should be looking for please as this is all very new to me.

I wouldn't be at all worried about supported SEN. As others have said, this means it's likely that all pupils will be supported. If it's unsupported though (as it is in some schools who say they have low SEN), I would be more worried.

When my DS was in lower primary, he was taken out of class in a small group to help with reading, and also taken out in a small group to do more advanced maths. No SEN in his case but the school did what they could to support everyone and seeing some pupils getting support does not mean that they need support for everything. Young primary can be a bit chaotic to an untrained eye.

Bear in mind that you will need to know the admission criteria. I’m sure you’ll be eligible for schools within walking distance, but those you have to drive to, may put you lower down the criteria.

A school that is nurturing is more likely to have happy pupils in my opinion. Happy pupils are more likely to perform to the best of their ability and to have a positive school experience.

I think you're conflating lots of different things, not all of which have much to do with proportions of children with SEN.

My DD's school has, currently and historically, high levels of children with SEN, because parents tend to 'opt in' as they know the support there will be good. There are also some children who were refused places at other schools. The headteacher is very good - she knows every trick in the book to get funding and support, and she is totally unflappable about adapting resources. My DD doesn't have any SEN as far as we know, but it makes it a much richer and nicer environment for her, because school are so used to thinking beyond tickboxes and narrow academic measures. I really like it.

I would personally be more concerned that you felt the layout was chaotic/the children seemed disrupted.

An Ofsted report may be several years old, worth checking in this case.

Visit both schools and also consider attending their Christmas Fayre, if they have one. Good chance to see other parents and older children.
If we are talking 'state' you will make your preferences and then get told which school you get.
Go with your gut.

The wonderful school that we ended up got my application because the headteacher proactively asked me to apply for my child after we'd done a tour and they'd got on brilliantly. The previous one we'd visited had a head who'd looked twitchy at the idea of them. And it turned out that her warmth was representative of the whole school. They deservedly have a strong local reputation for SEN support.

Not our school.

The class had many many SEN kids, all with their own individual needs. These needs were prioritised over all the other kids. My DD suffered massively as a result.

I don't doubt the teachers handled this badly, and they did not have enough resources (insert either crap head or the fact school budgets are so low, the outcome though was the same).

But the outcome was my DD actually went backwards for a year, rather than forwards and the teachers were completely oblivious to her. They were oh so confused by her end of year tests, and no idea why scores were so low they were off the chart.

The next year, most SEN had moved on, and the difference (and a new teacher) was astonishing. The classroom was calmer, the work was being achieved, and all kids given attention rather than those who demanded it loudest.

Aw, how lovely!

You missed the key part of what you replied to. ‘The school that gets it right for children with additional needs’. It sounds like yours very much wasn’t.

I work with children with SEN and go in and out of schools, overall I find the best mainstream schools (on feeling and not ofsted) are often those who have good SEN support in place and not a complete academic focus. However there are instances where schools/classes have a very high level of SEN need with insufficient support/facilities and this absolutely impacts on the rest of the class.

I'm considering schools for DC at the moment and actually have a similar dilemma. Our two closest are the same distance apart but in two different areas and I work in one of those so have been to the school. The school I'm drawn to isn't known for good SEN support and is very academically focused (DC doesn't have SEN as far as we know so this is not a current consideration for him) and the negative comments/reviews online have all been from parents who have struggled to access support for SEN. However, the other which has overall lovely reviews from parents (over 50% of pupils have SEN) I was put off the other after going in for work and seeing how things were impacting the whole class. I actually feel quite terrible for not wanting DC to go there but my gut just says it wouldn't be right for him. If many of the other schools I know with good SEN provision and a high number of children with SEN were close by I wouldn't have been put off applying for them in any way.

Go with your gut feeling, not every school is right for every child.

My child’s mainstream private school must have sky high SEN levels. Parents choose the school as they have a great Dyslexia provision and excellent discipline providing a safe, calm learning environment helping those with ASD and ADHD cope. It’s such a shame state schools fail in these areas.

I think if you talked to the parents of the SEN kids they would of said the school did get it right. It was just at the expense of others, which they would not have been aware of, quite understandably.

Just to clarify - I do not have an issue with the SEN kids getting the help they require - they quite clearly should. My issue was this was at the expense of the others which is where it failed.

I completely accept budgets and a crap head did not help the teacher - but the result was still there were a bunch of kids who basically did not get taught for a year.

But you said they all moved on after a year? So the school and/or their parents knew it wasn’t working. Where did they all go?

I’d also say that, certainly at primary, if your child is disrupting other children, you tend to be very aware of that. Other parents talk.

” rather than those who demanded it loudest “

sounds more like behaviour / discipline issues more than SEN issues.

Yeh that’s confusing haha why was her daughter still in class but all the SEN children moved on 🤣🙈

Have a look at the ratio of teachers / LSA to pupils with SEN. That's the most important stat. If a school has a high number of SEN pupils and doesn't have a corresponding level of staffing all the children in that school will be adversely affected. SEN children need more staff to thrive, without it they can flounder and may become disruptive.

States schools are having to cope with some children with very challenging behaviour, which private schools can refuse admission too
Both autism and ADHD are very broad spectrums
Added to that the lack of resources is it any wonder some pupils are failed.

I hate to be that person but I can't help but be offended by this op

The presence of sen children doesn't take away from how good a school is.

One thing about being a parent is, kids are unpredictable. You never know, one day your kid that you think should be kept away from such a school, might actually need the support from such a school. 😕😕

What's odd about that?

It is odd - why have all the SEN kids gone? That's not normal.

Doesn't she just mean they're all in the other year that's moved up? Fairly normal in small schools to have two years together.

@MumOfOneAllAlone you aren't the only one.

Ah, I see. I reread the post, It does sound like one really tricky year of kids whose needs weren’t being met in a mixed class then. And a school that couldn’t cope with that.

A high SEN population could indicate that the school is known for effective management of SEN. Effective management of SEN will mean less disruption for everyone because needs are being met. I also agree that the kind of strategies used to help and support SEN children are most likely the kind of strategies that help all children to flourish.

But if you don't have a good feeling about it, then go with your gut.

Small school, mixed year groups - most of the SEN were the year above and moved onto secondary schools.

Year 6 was a much happier classroom experience thankfully.