If you missed your kid's parents' night because you were on a term time holiday, would you expect the teacher to allow another appointment when you return?

[Purpleturtle46]

Just that really. Parents night same week every year and parents informed 2 months in advance.

YABU-yes the teacher should arrange to see you at an alternative time on your return.

YANBU-no, you booked and holiday and missed it so that's on you!

In the event that your child was having surgery, would you expect the consultant and the anaesthesiologist to give you two separate appointments?

CCR - class contact reduction. Also known as McCrone time, or RCCT in other authorities.

As a governor I am privy to the stats.

I didn't say there wasn't any reasons, although I struggle to think of 'hundreds of reasons'? I just stated that teachers gave up their own time to help children who had knowledge gaps due to missing chunks of school, and that this offer was only taken up by a quarter of those who were identified as needing it, which reduced the benefits of these sessions across the school, these are facts.

It is also a fact that children on PP take many more termtime holidays in our school than those not on PP, and that schools have to report on attainment of PP vs non PP children and attendance of PP vs non PP

And yes I agree, it's completely appropriate for ofsted to investigate cases of reduced attendance. The head had to sit with the inspector and go through files of every child where attendance was below 90% and explain what the issues with their attendance was and what the school has done to improve attendance. And their conclusion was the school had done absolutely everything they could to both reduce absences and improve attainment, and they got an outstanding.

And yes there are situations where it's unavoidable, and the school do authorise where it's a clear one off reason where timing is beyond parental control - for example we took them out for 2 days to attend a family wedding abroad which was brought forward due to grooms mum being terminally ill. They also authorise for children of service personnel, and where child, sibling or parent is life limited, for family funerals and other one off exceptional events.

I am also a survivor of DV so not ignorant at all. I lived it. In the same way our social worker wouldn't be in a room alone with him, I wouldn't also put myself in a vulnerable position. The rate of violence against teachers has gone up, so no it's not ignorant to protect myself even if the chance is small.

Parents cause huge disruption when they take their children out during term time. It's a selfish thing to do and has an impact on the child, the class and also the teacher.Teachers don't have a choice. We have to pay above the odds for our holidays. Imagine if your child's teacher chipped off for a term time holiday? It's irresponsible.

This. People are so ignorant of how hard teachers work.

Nope. The teachers working time agreement allocates the amount of hours needed on that specific week for appointments. Seeing you at a different time would take them over their contracted hours. Also, why should they?

This. No other service gives separated parents two appointments but I’m expected to as a teacher. Unless it’s a severe DV case where being together is unsafe, get your shit together and do your job as parents! My DH and his ex go to all appointments for DSD together - their inability to make their marriage work shouldn’t be a problem that takes up the professional time of others!

Actually we read earlier in the thread from a health service where 2 appointments are offered if needed.
My children have 2 appointments if the other parent requests as it's flagged on NHS system that it would be a necessity.

Any GP or nurse appointments again they know to phone other parent and give them the appropriate medical info about the child's appointment.

It's detailed in a court order if needed - and all professionals must therefore adhere to it.

I wonder if this is rare reading this thread?

I hope it’s rare because I’d say it’s only necessary in abuse cases where it wouldn’t be safe for someone to be in the same vicinity as their ex partner. No professional service should be giving two appointments where the parents just don’t like each other, or can’t be bothered being around each other; they can grow up and be civilised for their children for 20 mins.

We wouldn't give 2 appointments, there is no need for the child to attend twice. But we would call the other parent to give a brief summary of the appointment if requested, especially if the child spent time with both parents and the othe4 parent needed this information to be able to care for them effectively

Completely agree @adviceneeded1990 & shocking the amount of resources that are wasted due to adults not able to behave in a civilised way & put the needs of their child first. I imagine if there was a charge for the 2nd appt, they'd soon find a way to make it work!

Attendance below 90% is not caused just by term time holidays. Do parents even tell the school when their children are going away? We fill in a holiday form, the head will send a letter back authorising the first five days. If they weren't authorised at all I don't think many people would bother with the form.

Parents are trying to give their children a different sort of education, travel is good for people. I think on balance that five days of schooling missed to travel is fine, and clearly school do too because they're quite happy to take kids out of school for other educational experiences. School is not the only place children can learn and I'm glad ours is governed by people who understand that.

We're lucky in that we stay with family when we go away and we drive so the costs don't explode for us in the holidays. We do have a week booked for next July though, and I don't feel like my kids will be trapped in poverty as a result because they go to school the rest of the time. I won't be missing parents evening, but if I did her teacher would speak to me any time. They're really good at communicating and her teacher has kids in the school herself. Our school has a great Estyn report too and is ranked as highly as it can be, despite being in a deprived area. Key for me is that parents and teachers communicate in good faith and try to understand each other. I would be really sad to see hostility over such a polite request as a five minute chat about a kid's progress.

@Purpleturtle46 Start scheduling the extra 10 minutes first thing in the morning before teaching begins and it will soon fix itself.

I imagine of your class of 30 you can schedule a couple of extra 10 minutes for all those special parents.

Between leadership and parents, they'll just love that.

As if teachers don't have enough to do and spend enough time working extra, unpaid hours. Ridiculous 😒.

Below 90% is about 18 missed days of school. If a parent takes them away once for 2 weeks and another time for 1 week during termtime, plus a few sick days, then it easily drops below 90%. Some parents tell the school, some don't, but it's blindingly obvious when a child comes back with an amazing tan in the middle of a rainy March, that they were not laying in bed with a tummy bug from Monday to Friday.

Heads in England where we are are only allowed to authorise in exceptional circumstances, there is a form we can submit to my daughters school if we think our request meets these, we have requested it twice, both a couple days for family weddings abroad, and both times it has been agreed. Our school is more flexible than most, it will agree time off for most family events etc as long as childs attendance is over 95%. I'm guessing your school is not in England?

Our school would also call a parent for a brief chat about their childs progress if requested, but this post was whether parents should be entitled to a parents evening appointment on a different date if they miss the planned one. Of course it's helpful if a school will do this, but I don't think a parent can complain if they don't.
Tbh the pre planned parents meeting should be nothing more than a brief update for a child who is doing well. If there are any specific learning or behaviour concerns then a good school wouldn't wait until parents evening to talk about this, they would be asking the parents to come in for a meeting.

We know that lower attendance correlates to poorer outcomes. Whether that is as a direct result of the missed days, or that those who are missing days also place less importance on their child's education and that impacts on their outcomes can be debated.

My daughter has 5 close friends from a wide variety of backgrounds. Talking with her friends about 'what do you want to be when you grow up'. Those with parents in professional roles came out with 'Children's nurse, teacher, archaeologist, photographer/explorer', other 2 said 'hairdresser and 'nail person', these 2 have several termtime holidays. Talking about university, these 2 were adamant they wouldn't attend, despite both being naturally very bright, brighter than my daughter and her other 3 friends. But the level of aspiration was very different, and the attitude towards school and learning was very different, it just wasn't seen as a priority. So that's what I meant earlier about getting stuck in a poverty trap, these children have a completly different mindset, which I found really interesting, and the challenge for schools in changing the attainment gap is as much psychology as income related.

@Bushmillsbabe Have you had absences agreed this term though? The rules have changed and things are tougher now.

I haven't asked for any, but I friend had 2 days authorised for a family funeral abroad. The fines are higher, but I think the schools still have ability to authorise in exceptional circumstances.

Well then, it's a different scenario, isn't it? They are still able to (and likely to) authorise absence for a funeral but will not for any sort of holiday. There will be no "oh, it's only 5 days so that's fine" from now on.

Phonecall yes but not face to face unless maybe it was straight after school.