To think my flexible working request will not unreasonable?

[NameChangedOct]

Hello! I returned from maternity leave 3 months ago. I’m full time, but had accrued a LOT of annual leave so have been using this to take every Friday off for the rest of the year, essentially working a 4 day week. From January I was hoping to request a permanent change, 4 days for 80% pay.

However, my manager is saying it’s really difficult for the team/business under my current working arrangement and may not be sustainable permanently. I do appreciate that the work I do comes in (with little notice) as tasks/mini-projects that take 2-3 days and are quite time sensitive. So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death). Everyone else on my team works full time, even those with young kids.

I’ve not put a formal request in but AIBU thinking the above is not a good enough reason for them to refuse this as a legal right as a parent.

i really love my job, colleagues and flexibility (I can WFH), but I also need a day off to spend with my little one.

Your manager has told you it's not working and they will likely refuse due to business reasons. That's reasonable of them, as it has been tried but not possible as it puts more work onto your colleagues and doesn't allow work to be done to deadlines, it is important to keep to client deadlines.

Your best way of getting this approved it to suggest an alternative that will work better for the team and business, so as pp suggested a different day might work better.

Anyone has the legal right to ask for flexible working, if qualifying conditions are met. Being a parent doesn't give you that right, and nor does it allow you to assume that your request will be granted. You're not the only parent who works, and it's not all about you.

I was under the impression that the business reason had to be really strong

Thing is, "really strong" is massively subjective, and what really matters to a business can be so easily brushed aside by those in pursuit of something they want, so the best you'll get in law is something like "legitimate business reasons" - which it certainly seems they have

Probably best to look elsewhere for someone who really needs only 4 days a week, but I'd leave any reference to child care well out of it since this simply isn't an employer's responsibility

I went back and did 4 days FOR A YEAR - using A/L. I achieved more on that year than every before, hugely increased income, built a new team etc.

Still denied. Literally a year of evidence it could work and still denied.

I left

But your lack of imagination about how different working patterns might impact on different companies wouldn't actually hold much sway in an employment tribunal. If the company can demonstrate that the OP's proposed working pattern would have a detrimental impact on their business, your inevitably uninformed opinion on whether or not they're managing the business effectively is pretty irrelevant.

From a managerial perspective, four days is an absolute pain the arse. You lose 20% head count pretty much permanently (you will find it’s ’restructured’ to an 0.8FTE on the books). That means two things, first, the rest of the team/department gets to absorb 0.2FTE worth of work, and secondly, as you will never get that back, if the person leaves you are stuck hiring another 0.8FTE as you gave up your headcount. It’s shit.

I find three day works much better as you can tend to get a 2 day a week person (generally a woman who has young kids wanting to keep their hand in to transition back more hours when kids go to school; or even someone transitioning out to retirement who will go 0.4FTE over 2-4 day and then you backfill them with a full time 1.0 FTE). It’s really not feasible to hire someone for one day a week so you don’t permanently lose your 0.2FTE, so while I’d be supportive of three days, I’d pull out all stops for a business case for four days due to everyone else having to absorb the 0.2.

I'd suggest a super human effort to get everything done on Thursdays and hand nothing over for the next month or so before you make the request, but if others have to pick up your work or stuff is delayed until the next week I do think it's reasonable to reject (unless perhaps very little new is started on Fridays and there is always someone in the team with slack, but I'm not sure that's the case).

Cannot be a Friday or Monday for sure. Wednesday off worked well for me when dc were little.

Which is why op said 'for 80% pay" in the op? She doesn't want to work full time.

Not sure what type of industry or role you're in, but what do you think the response would be if you say you'll have to hand in your resignation if you don't get flexible hours?

How quickly replaceable are you? The employer would be forced to choose between the hassle of re-hiring someone new or working around your needs. Ultimately that would be down to them and you could lose your job, but maybe if more people were assertive like this employers would get the message that employees are not slaves and flexibility can actually improve productivity/employee satisfaction.

I'm lucky to be in a role where I'm part of a union who has fought these battles for us, so within my field I actually do have a "right" to work part-time. This has led to greater retention of employees, particularly women and those with various disabilities.

Can you not trial a Wednesday off? That way nothing is getting left for any significant period and you may not have to pass much over to others to complete.
Otherwise if the part time hours are important you could suggest doing 3 days and finding a job share for the other days.
They don’t have to accept your request but do have to show they’ve considered it. I’d try to understand the issues for the business and mitigate these concerns, or look for a part time job elsewhere.

Still denied. Literally a year of evidence it could work and still denied

The question is how it worked though and whether that is sustainable. We have a similar situation with one person having enough leave to basically do a 4 day week for six months. A few others have accumulated a lot of leave and are taking it as large blocks (6 weeks to enable decent travel). It ‘works’ because everyone else shoulders the gap and works longer hours as the work still needs to be done. That actually goes to a business case of why it won’t work in our situation.

This, I'd stay WFH on Fridays. Worst day to have off IMO as childcare is quieter and things are less hetic. A midweek day often has less impact IME

This is a reverse right?

While your desire for flexible working arrangements is understandable, especially as a parent, it’s important to also consider the broader business needs and operational challenges. Here are a few points that may help explain why your manager might find it difficult to accommodate your request:

Impact on Workflow Continuity

• Task Handover Issues: You mentioned that your work often involves projects or tasks that are time-sensitive and take 2-3 days to complete. In situations where you hand these tasks over to colleagues or leave them until Monday, it creates gaps in the workflow. Even if it’s only “slightly less efficient” from your point of view, these delays could cumulatively slow down the team’s output, affecting the business’s ability to meet deadlines.
• Client or Stakeholder Expectations: Depending on the nature of the business, external stakeholders or clients may have certain expectations about response times and project completion. If tasks are delayed due to the gaps created by your absence on Fridays, this could reflect poorly on the team as a whole, even if the delays are relatively minor.

Fairness to Colleagues

• Added Burden: Your current arrangement often requires other team members to pick up tasks in your absence. While it may seem manageable, this can create extra work or interruptions in their schedules. Over time, this redistribution of work may lead to frustration, especially since the rest of your colleagues are working full time, including those with similar family commitments.
• Team Dynamics: It’s important to remember that office morale and team cohesion can be impacted if certain team members feel they are carrying an unequal share of the workload. While your request is based on family needs, others in the team might have personal commitments too, and accommodating one person’s request might lead to more requests or feelings of inequity.

Legal Rights vs. Business Needs

• Not an Automatic Right: While parents do have the legal right to request flexible working arrangements, it’s not guaranteed that these requests will be approved. Employers can refuse requests if they can demonstrate that it would have a detrimental effect on business operations, such as a negative impact on performance, inability to meet customer demand, or additional costs.
• Business Sustainability: You acknowledged that your current arrangement has been difficult for the team. If this is the case, then moving to a permanent 4-day week might continue to strain the team or create inefficiencies that hinder business productivity.

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine,

I'm sure you think it's fine. Does your colleague?

I get u OP and no-one is indispensable.
Would a day off other than a Fri work 4 the company? If it did, that would be a compromise. I always worked FT when my child was a baby (single parent) and really wish I could have worked PT. I don't know much about employment law but I would have thought your employer has a duty to consider/accommodate PT hours (mine does).

This is an excellent point. I was that colleague, for 5 years, in my last job. There were 3 of us doing similar roles/cover for each other. One worked Mon-Thurs, and the other a 9 day fortnight, with the day off being 'floating'.... You can see where this is going, can't you. I'd say at least once per month, I was the only one of us working on a Friday. I got all of the shit, picked up all of the last minute Friday shit which always kicked off (often not even in areas I knew anything about.) It got to the point that I struggled to be able to get long weekends off, or more than a week holiday. I was so fed up and resentful of my colleagues - and my terrible manager (which is a whole other story.)
Just because YOU think it's working, doesn't mean everyone else isn't simmering with hate for the impact your pattern has on them.

I'd sit down with your manager and say you'd like to drop to 0.8FTE, and what would work. You might find they have some creative solutions. I've done that for members of my team in the past. Annualised/monthly hours, for example - or a jobshare between 3 people, who were all P/T, to cover 2 roles.
Good luck

Delays can happen due to other reasons, of course, but it sounds like they’ve tried to adjust to you working 80% of the time and (in its current model) it’s not working because you require someone else to pick up your work load which isn’t always possible and therefore creates delays that they consider to be avoidable.

If your request just went in, I’d ask for a meeting with your manager and have a plan for how delays can be reduced/mitigated by the type of project or client you’re assigned. It shouldn’t all hang on someone else being able to pick up the work. If you can show you’ve proactively considered how to improve the situation, I think you stand a better chance. Good luck!

Sorry while I want to be supportive of working mums (being one myself!) I don’t think it’s unreasonable in the circumstances for them to say this doesn’t work for them.

I have found previously it works better and is more palatable to everyone to take a Wednesday off. If work comes in on Tuesday and you can do it by Thursday COB that’s usually fine. If work comes in on a Thursday afternoon and it won’t even be looked at til Monday morning then that’s often a problem. It shouldn’t be substantively different but peoples attitudes are different to a day off midweek rather than having a long weekend.

I was the person picking up equivalent to a day extra a week, every school holiday, every Christmas and I was resentful. My case was worse because the part time colleague never did any work during her hours. Guess which one was treated badly? Not her.

It is reasonable to not allow you the flexibility because it is impacting on the team and the clients. And if your colleagues have enough, then what? It's only been allowed so far because they have to let you use leave.

You could try for a 9 day fortnight?

So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death).

Can't decide if you're entitled, ridiculous or selfish.

For your colleagues sake, not to mention your employer's, find a new job.

That's not the point I'm making. I more or less agree that the OP won't get this granted, as our employment law doesn't protect staff against this sort of simmering incompetency.

These arguments were all made when people were campaigning for Saturdays off as a right, you realise. "Oh but what if something comes up on Friday and it can't be seen until Monday?"

If management is competent, assigns work according employee working patterns and promises based on capacity and resourcing, none of these objections are a problem.

Again: I cannot think up a concrete example of a well run business where losing 8 manhours a week would cripple a team. If you have one, do enlighten me.

Offer to have a different day off?
I'm amazed they agreed to you having every Friday off what if someone else wants it off

Yes I had a Wednesday off and it worked really well