To think my flexible working request will not unreasonable?

[NameChangedOct]

Hello! I returned from maternity leave 3 months ago. I’m full time, but had accrued a LOT of annual leave so have been using this to take every Friday off for the rest of the year, essentially working a 4 day week. From January I was hoping to request a permanent change, 4 days for 80% pay.

However, my manager is saying it’s really difficult for the team/business under my current working arrangement and may not be sustainable permanently. I do appreciate that the work I do comes in (with little notice) as tasks/mini-projects that take 2-3 days and are quite time sensitive. So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death). Everyone else on my team works full time, even those with young kids.

I’ve not put a formal request in but AIBU thinking the above is not a good enough reason for them to refuse this as a legal right as a parent.

i really love my job, colleagues and flexibility (I can WFH), but I also need a day off to spend with my little one.

@QuickJadeUser, well, no.

Because OP has acknowledged that the nature of their work is dynamic and their Friday off frequently presents issues.

I don't think Mumsnet is bitchy, just honest. It would be very easy for everyone to pile in and tell the OP she is completely reasonable, and that her employers are being really unfair, but that doesn't help with any kind of resolution or way forward. What's happened here is that PP have pointed out the situation from the employers point of view, OP has taken that on board and will go back to her employers to discuss constructively which is much more likely to lead to a good outcome.

I don't work Thursdays which seems to suit everyone else in my current job. I like having a break in the week as close to Friday as possible, but its nice to come back online (wfh) for one more day. I work compressed hours, so f/t over 4 days. Maybe start earlier and have a break between 8:30 to 9:00 to drop the kids off at school?

It presents issues because management is obstinate and refuses to work around it.

They have options. They can either stop over promising on deadlines, or they can allocate projects in a way that doesn't cause pieces to run over.

A well resourced business runs its staff at 80% capacity, so you're not burning them out and so you have slack for busy times. One person reducing their hours causing catastrophic reputational damage or causing serious timeline problems? Sign of a poorly run business.

@QuickJadeUser but clearly it works when OP is there. OP is the reason it stops working.

Like I said up the thread, it's also incredibly selfish because it effectively eliminates the possibility of anyone else in the team having a Friday or a Monday off.

Some businesses function in pressured industries where a short deadline is needed.

@NameChangedOct I know you said doing 5 days in 4 wouldn't work but maybe doing 10 in 9 might? Then you could have every other Friday off, which could be a reasonable compromise.

It is a legal right to as for EVERYONE not just parents.

You shouldn't be passing work to colleagues in my opinion, if you want a non working day then you need to show how this won't impact other staff or your customers. Maybe offer different days as options for the non working day,

A refusal under the Employment Rights Act has to be because of one or more of the following:

• the burden of additional costs
• an inability to reorganise work amongst existing staff
• an inability to recruit additional staff
• a detrimental impact on quality
• a detrimental impact on performance
• a detrimental effect on ability to meet customer demand
• insufficient work available for the periods the employee proposes to work
• planned structural changes to the employer's business

They can't just refuse - they have to consult with you on it, and you can use this to discuss alternative options to see if there's a way around their concerns.

I would put in a request for Fridays off, then "compromise" to a different day (my friend used to take a Wednesday off and really liked it - she said it was like having a second weekend in the middle of the week!). Or offer a trial period (I know you say you're already doing a 4 day week, so use this to discuss the issues they perceive this is causing to see if there's a solution - they may just not have considered it, due to thinking the 4 days was only a temporary thing and would just go away when your holiday ran out).

If they then still refuse, they have to give you a written explanation as to why and you may be able to appeal it. Check your employee handbook or contract to know what your company's processes are.

https://www.acas.org.uk/acas-code-of-practice-on-flexible-working-requests/html

• an inability to reorganise work amongst existing staff
• a detrimental impact on quality
• a detrimental impact on performance
• a detrimental effect on ability to meet customer demand

OP has said all of these ^ occur. So they're well within their rights to say no.

Unfortunately from the company's point of view they only have to consider your request. It would appear that Friday's are problematic both in terms of handover of work and stopping other people taking Fridays off so perhaps you could suggest another day. I'm also guessing there has been some moaning from colleagues about picking up the slack If your request has been refused so quickly. If you offered some solutions they might be more receptive to your request. Perhaps you could consider a job share or condensed working so the full hours are covered?

I think you should request formally anyway - make sure you put it in under the new rules and use ACAS support to word it all properly.

Do also strongly consider compressed hours; it means your future earning and pension don’t take the same hit and business wise might help as a Thursday assigned project could potentially be finished on Monday (if you’re doing an extra couple of hours on those days, for example).

I think you'd be better off asking for a different day earlier in the week, particularly Monday. Then I think the grounds for refusals would be weaker.

I agree with previous poster who said change your day off, avoiding Mondays and Fridays as your day off, then you don't have such a big gap

Your boss's answer is not a justifiable reason to refuse. If you have a decent HR department, then they will advise your boss of this and the very least they have to offer is a trial period.

Did they recruit a mat leave replacement for you? How are they absorbing the work now you are having Fridays as annual leave for a year?

The latter point is very important, as if they are managing this, they cannot claim that the team/business cannot cope.

They should also be expected to attempt to recruit for a Friday replacement for you, if necessary, to prove that they couldn't.

I don't work flexi, but I am a director in the company I work for, have dealt with a lot of flexi work requests, and we have a very robust HR department who know their stuff and know it's extremely difficult for a business to refuse.

Again, it only doesn't work (and I can basically guarantee this) because management is incompetent. The team is evidently operating away from optimal resourcing levels. Those in charge of managing resourcing and timelines are bad at it.

The reason I make this point is that we have a tendency to view bad management as inevitable. That, as employees, we should just expect businesses to be completely incompetent at resourcing and timelines. The structure of a business isn't an accident. It's not a universal constant. We can and should expect competency.

The equations are genuinely really simple. You can produce so many units with so many manhours. If you have less manhours, you can produce less units. It's not a difficult idea. What they risk by denying flexible working is instead of losing 8 hours labour a week is losing 40 because OP leaves to go to a competitor that will accommodate her (and believe me, there are flexible businesses out there. Given OP seems to be so massively crucial to her team, any good business would jump at hiring her).

Incompetent, inflexible management lose staff.

(Again, not saying that OP will have her request granted. It's unlikely they will because they're probably massively incompetent).

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think a lot of these responses have been very harsh! I work 4 days with a Friday off. My key stakeholders have come to learn my working pattern, and know if they want something doing by the end of the week they need to get it over to me with plenty of time on a Thursday. Or wait until the Monday. No-one cares. Like you say, it's an office job, not life or death. If employees want to retain good staff they need to show some degree of flexibility.

It’s not even new laws. It’s a draft bill - they are PROPOSALS and will undoubtably change (when someone with any level of business nous and sense reads them).

It does have to much stronger than this. You are correct. Most people do not fight their companies with denials, but if they did and external organisations got involved then their reasonings wouldn't hold up. Employees often don't want to go through this, however.

Oh I agree, but she has the right to request it, so I was just setting out their options for refusal.

As OP says though, she is already working 4 days per week at the moment, so this is an opportunity to discuss with the employer what the issues currently are with that 4 day arrangement to see if there are ways around it. i.e. if it's the fact that she's currently taking every Friday off that's an issue, would it be better if it was a different day instead? Or is there a further compromise to do, say, a 9 day fortnight and take every other Friday off instead? Or a half day on a Friday, rather than a full day.

It is tricky for employers though (I'm one myself), because there's a few immediate thoughts that come to my mind:

• if it's possible to do the same work in 4 days anyway, why have we been paying someone for a full time job;
• if I agree and others have to pick up an extra day's worth of work between them, am I going to piss off the rest of my staff who have to do it?
• What if they all suddenly decided that they all fancy doing a 4 day week? It would get to a point where I'd have to recruit another person to make up the missing work, or at some point I'd have to start saying no to someone, and then it's not fair on whoever's request came in last.

Ultimately OP needs to be aware of the possibility that they might say no and not budge, so will need to either be accepting of that, or look for a part time job instead.

Can you request 4 days ... but say take Wednesday off rather than Fruday. That way work is only waiting 24 hours rather than 3 days. Gpid luck. Yiu e nothing to lose by asking.

Did you read the thread?! The first post spells out multiple reasons it could be refused.

employment threads in AIBU are just the pits. <goes back to the work and legal boards where advice is not based on opinion>

The OP has already said that there have been some problems during the trial period while she has been using her annual leave. She's having to pass work on to other colleagues and there have been delays to time sensitive work that have impacted on their clients.

A Friday replacement wouldn't be feasible or desirable in many industries. The employer might be more willing to recruit a job share or second PT worker if the OP was willing to reduce her hours further to 0.5 or 0.6FTE.

I have seen it time and time again that excellent employees that are bulwarks of their teams leave because the management of the company can't get their heads out of their bums to sort out resourcing.

It's not that the company can't accommodate, it's that they won't.

Lol what universe are you in where you think any company runs its staff at 80% capacity? It doesn't make any kind of business sense to do that, and most companies can't hire as many people as they would like anyway.

If so, wait until new regulations to apply.