To think my flexible working request will not unreasonable?

[NameChangedOct]

Hello! I returned from maternity leave 3 months ago. I’m full time, but had accrued a LOT of annual leave so have been using this to take every Friday off for the rest of the year, essentially working a 4 day week. From January I was hoping to request a permanent change, 4 days for 80% pay.

However, my manager is saying it’s really difficult for the team/business under my current working arrangement and may not be sustainable permanently. I do appreciate that the work I do comes in (with little notice) as tasks/mini-projects that take 2-3 days and are quite time sensitive. So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death). Everyone else on my team works full time, even those with young kids.

I’ve not put a formal request in but AIBU thinking the above is not a good enough reason for them to refuse this as a legal right as a parent.

i really love my job, colleagues and flexibility (I can WFH), but I also need a day off to spend with my little one.

See your ‘not the end of the world’ is irrelevant.

It means your team do not hit their deadlines.

Saying ‘it’s different clients each time’ so it’s fine. Is ok until people start noticing deadlines are regularly missed.

If a deadline is 2-3 days and it’s regularly being missed, it’s regularly being missed. The deadline is set as that, for a reason. It’s not important to you. That doesn’t mean it’s not important.

You have essentially being testing it out and they are telling you it doesn’t work.

Labour have just published a draft of the new workers rights bill which is expected to change the law to make flexible working the default for all unless employer can prove unreasonable. This is more favourable to employees than the existing law is. It will take a few months to get through parliament etc but it might mean that your employer will have to rethink their approach in future

Here

Sounds like their reason is not unreasonable!

puls it maybe be better if you had a day off mid week? Or would that make no difference?

Why not ask for Monday's off? If you can't complete a task by Thursday close of business you're potentially creating a 4 day delay whereas if you're not available to complete on a Monday you personally are only creating a single days delay?

I personally feel it's reasonable for them to deny the Friday.

The employer could still show this is unreasonable.

Everyone wants Fridays off. I currently have two team members in my small team of 4 that don't work Fridays (I inherited them with that arrangement). It is mangeable but an utter ballache for arranging meetings and it means anything time sensitive falls to me on a Friday. So if I ever take Friday off nothing gets done.

Sounds like a reasonable business reason to decline to me! When I applied for flexible working I had to state the effect would have on the business and how any effect could be mitigated on my application form.

The timing issue appears larger on Friday/Monday because of the weekend. Can you suggest taking off a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday instead? Psychologically, the gap of you waiting a day to finish up will not seem as dramatic.

Given that your manager has already expressed reservations you need to compromise or you will get a flat out refusal, which would be legitimate if the impact of your current pattern using Annual Leave is any guide. I would suggest there would be less impact on the business if your day off was on Wednesday rather than Friday and you work at 90% of fte by working 12.5% longer on Mon,Tue,Thu&Fri. This would be perceived as much closer to full time and more likely to be accepted. Having your day off mid-week is better for lots of reasons - more mum&toddler activities available, less pressure at family-friendly venues that are always really crowded on fridays, having a midweek breather helps the week to be more bearable generally. And if a project is delayed due to your day off it feels like a shorter delay to only wait from wed to thu rather than fri to mon.

I can't see how the changes in the law will have any impact on a situation like the OP's. The employer clearly does have reasonable grounds for refusing the request in this case.

I don’t know why mumsnet are such bitches about flexible working.

@NameChangedOct it entirely depends on your sector, in mine flexible working requests are almost always accommodated in some form.

You have demonstrated by doing a 4 day week how it works and what the impacts are. You could offer an alternative day for example perhaps a Weds would have less impact on deliverables. Alternatively you could agree to do it for 1 year with a review before making it perm.

I’m a senior manager doing 0.81 FTE myself and I have approved hundreds of requests in my career. About half I have needed to reach a compromise but there’s only been 2 I refused completely.

Employers are expected to find ways to accommodate, not ways to refuse. But given the ridiculous comments above you’d think you were asking for something completely unreasonable.

Oh I was hoping for a Friday for DS’s routine, but thinking about it different day - monday or Wednesday might work better for them, as I could finish things in the same week. I’ll chat to them.

Fridays are tricky because someone being off permanently means it's harder to approve annual leave etc for others (and Mondays and Fridays are invariably the most popular days). It also means if anything comes in that needs sorting it's in limbo over the weekend. Would they consider another day? But yes, they can refuse they just have to demonstrate they have considered it; if you counter it be mindful to not downplay your work and that it's not that important.

AIBU thinking the above is not a good enough reason for them to refuse this as a legal right as a parent.

YABU-that is a solid read on for them to refuse. Remember it’s your legal right to ask, not to get.

That’s always the best thing to do. Chat and see if something else would work.

Sometimes flexible working requires the employee to compromise too.

Can you afford to work part-time?

In which case you could make a request to drop your hours to working 3 days a week and get a jobsharer to cover the rest of the week.

If not I would start looking for other jobs as it does not sound like they are going to approve your request.

It's interesting that you frame it as people being bitchy. I don't think that's it at all.

I have worked very flexibly myself for years, and have always supported flexible working within my team, but it isn't in the slightest bit bitchy to point out that an employer is perfectly within their rights to decline a flexible working request if the proposed pattern puts pressure on other colleagues and/or delays time sensitive work being completed for clients. That's just a reflection of the law as it stands...employers can refuse requests if there are clear business reasons for doing so.

I think saying you’ll be flexible with them on what day of the week is chosen would be your best option to getting them to agree. Clearly Friday isn’t working for them - you’ve proved it!

Seems like from above that Wednesday would potentially have the least business impact?

I think we’d all prefer a Friday (or a Monday) off, but your employer is not obligated to give it to you!

It's a perfectly good reason to deny it. Just because you want it doesn't mean it fits their business. Either cut your days to part time and job share so the hours are still covered, or look for another job which doesn't have time sensitive tasks that you'll keep delaying.

Sounds like if you requested a different day off it might be different. Everyone would love a 3 day weekend every week, but there's good business reasons why that doesn't work. Would that also block colleagues from being able to take holiday on Fridays because of headcount?

Request a Wednesday instead, then you'll have thurs and Friday to finish your projects causing no delays for clients. I work flexi part time and i take Wednesdays or Thursdays off - works very well for all concerned but Fridays wouldn't.

The law currently allows employers to refuse for a valid business reason (doesn’t have to be a very strong reasons) without giving any evidence. The new law is expected to only allow refusal where is the arrangements are unfeasible and the burden of proof will be on the employee to prove why this is not feasible. It will be a pretty major change to employee rights and all large companies are busy preparing and worrying about this believe me!!

It’s definitely worth asking if they would be happy with another day. I started a new job and asked at the offer stage if I could do 4 days. They said yes specifically because I asked for a Wednesday off, as it’s midweek and makes cover much easier!

Honestly, your attitude kind of stinks - of course it matters that tasks are delayed regularly or that you're constantly handing work over to your colleagues.

Your argument that it happens when people are sick or on holiday is irrelevant as those things will still happen with you working a four day week anyway.

You also don't have any legal right as a parent to work flexible hours - you have the right to ask (as does everyone else) but your employer doesn't have to agree.

If the work needs completing by the end of the week would requesting a Monday or Wednesday work better?

@Cobblersorchard But given the ridiculous comments above you’d think you were asking for something completely unreasonable.
She has if she's asking for the Friday. Colleagues to pick up her workload, detrimental affect to business. Pp have suggested alternative day which ops taken on board.