To think my flexible working request will not unreasonable?

[NameChangedOct]

Hello! I returned from maternity leave 3 months ago. I’m full time, but had accrued a LOT of annual leave so have been using this to take every Friday off for the rest of the year, essentially working a 4 day week. From January I was hoping to request a permanent change, 4 days for 80% pay.

However, my manager is saying it’s really difficult for the team/business under my current working arrangement and may not be sustainable permanently. I do appreciate that the work I do comes in (with little notice) as tasks/mini-projects that take 2-3 days and are quite time sensitive. So usually I will start something on a Thursday and unable to finish it, I have to hand it over to a colleague (which I think is fine, only slightly less efficient, or if the colleague can’t get to it then it waits until Monday which delays the output beyond our usual times, but it’s hardly life or death). Everyone else on my team works full time, even those with young kids.

I’ve not put a formal request in but AIBU thinking the above is not a good enough reason for them to refuse this as a legal right as a parent.

i really love my job, colleagues and flexibility (I can WFH), but I also need a day off to spend with my little one.

As an employer, we haven't been worried about this, as we know that we already do everything we possibly can to accommodate flexible working requests. We never refuse them without very good reasons for doing so, and we always provide a clear explanation to staff if we have to say no. So not convinced that much is going to change for us.

Are you suggesting that, in this case, the regular delaying of time sensitive work for clients and the increased workload for colleagues, as evidenced during what has effectively been a trial period for the OP's desired working pattern, would not be sufficient under the new legislation to allow the employer to decline the request?

Will employers just be expected to suck up any negative impacts under the new legislation? Where do you think the line be drawn between what is merely damaging to the employer and what is actually deemed to be "unfeasible"?

Agree with Mondays or Wednesdays. Whilst it’s nice to think there might be more mum coffees/toddler clubs on a Friday, managing work here is the priority. Also, is there someone else more junior you can suggest
to train up so they can at least move a few elements on whilst you’re off? It’s actually good for my junior team to not have me there one day, it’s a day with increased responsibility without someone there watching the whole time. I am always contactable on my Monday off though and I’m 100% accountable for the work they do - sometimes I have to log on on a Sunday or Monday evening to move things along.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I think that poster has bought the telegraph scare tactics of "Labour are going to make things impossible for businesses!!"

People will have the right to request flexi working, the business can say no for business reasons. This would be a solid business reason

Unfortunately OP I think they could deny you on the basis of what you've said as it's exactly what happened to me when I requested a day off a week (albeit compressed hours for me). Impact on other colleagues and impact on customer delivery are 2 of the categories they can use to turn requests down.

I appealed and they subsequently allowed a half-day off midweek, rather than the Friday I had requested (because it's my quietest day, but they said it wasn't).

I hope you get your request 🙏

This is saying that you think it's reasonable to reduce the level of service your customers are generally used to. Yes, delays happen sometimes, but your changed hours seem likely to mean that they become more common. I think that's a pretty strong business reason.

When I first went part time, I realised having Fridays off wouldn't work for the reasons others have said - if you are supporting a 7 day a week customer, there is a huge gap in you being able to respond to them.
For the past 15 years, I have always had a Weds or Thurs off. Not only does it work well from a work perspective but I found it much better from a life perspective too. The DC were only ever in nursery for two days before we could have a more chilled day doing whatever we wanted; it gave me a chance to catch up on the washing and go to the supermarket so there wasn't as much to do as the weekends. Also, when sickness bugs were going around, it massively reduced the number of times the 48 hour rule affect two nursery days.

Your employers reason is perfectly reasonable. You don't have a legal right to reduce your hours, your legal right is to ask if you can and for them to consider it.f

I went back to work after mat leave 4 days per week, and very quickly realised that I was still doing the same volume of work for less pay. I moved roles about a year later and went back 5 days....if I'm working myself silly then I want to be paid for it! If the work is there for full time, I doubt you'd feel the benefit of reduced hours to be honest.

Haven’t read all the replies so apologies if duplicated but you are also asking for the “best” day of the week off, so you’re handing over every Thursday and also “taking” all the Fridays off on leave so if someone else wants a Friday they are double short.

you may find your manager ia more amenable if you asked for a mid week day off.

Sorry OP but on the basis of the information you've provided, as your manager I would definitely deny it as there is a clear impact to the business and your colleagues and clients. I manage a large team, with a similar time sensitive workload and part time / flexible working doesn't work for our team unfortunately. This won't change after the new labour laws come in.

This is another factor. Nobody else can take a long weekend because OP has taken Fridays, leaving them all stressed, and then they have to be in on a Monday to hand over to OP/finish the task themselves. It's extremely selfish.

Actually, the OP can see the impact on others as she has set it out very clearly in her post. She has just decided that it isn't important enough, in her opinion, to get in the way of the working pattern that she wants.

It has to be a valid business reason, not the end of the world. It delays work tasks for customers or puts additional work on your colleagues. Sounds like a good reason to me.

Yes very good point - Fridays are bound to be the most popular day and having someone permanently taking off the best day is really unfair

I would try a Wednesday as PP said. I wish I'd taken Wednesdays off now DD is older. I have Thursdays off but she does a mix of pre school and Nursery Mon, Tues, Weds. By Thursday she is exhausted so I think a day off in the middle would have worked well.

Yep, certainly sounds like she has swallowed a few Telegraph articles!

A compromise might be for you to change your day ‘off’ to another day - if you know that work comes in on Thursdays for example it would make more sense for you to take Wednesday off so you could finish the tasks without much impact. That’s if it’s predictable. If it’s not predictable could you have a floating day arrangement where you change your day off? If you had a nanny or childminder it might be feasible. Alternatively you could suggest you work three weeks of the month and essentially accumulate the days and take in one go - this would still impact them but at least be more predicatable and only affect the projects that week. Another idea might be to job share - eg you work part time and someone else does the other part time so it equates to one full time role. If there is an employee already there who wanted to do part time this could work. It’s very very hard to hang onto your job when the employer isn’t flexible to suit what you need as a mother.. O left my job after 4 months back from maternity leave for similar reasons in that I simply could not do the role in the time required and I had to make a choice. It’s a struggle many face.. I don’t know what the answer is if they won’t budge other than finding a new job or giving up for a while until child is older. Best of luck x

I go against the grain here - it’s reasonable for you to ask and, unfortunately, they are within their legal right to say no.

However, it’s so short sighted. From a workplace perspective, they lose you and have to recruit - which probably equates to the productivity lose of your handing over for a whole year. At a macro level, our approach to working parents nationally remains poor in so many areas. Economic prosperity completely depends on people having babies, and yet we expect people (women) to have these babies and then run themselves ragged trying to raise them well and work. It doesn’t make sense. Same with those who care for people - it saves the state £m annually and yet their support system is poor. Your request isn’t unreasonable OP and I would spend time constructing a position which you go back to them with.

I'd imagine that in the conditions, the company would want a team player on their team. Not someone who views their desire to be with their child as being above the needs of the team.

Sounds like your business isn't very good at resource allocation. It's not like those team members are springing this arrangement on the team, you'd have thought people would have worked out how to set appropriate deadlines with the staff you have.

OP, I have to concede the people in this thread are right. The law doesn't make allowances for incompetency in management (which is rife, really). Realistically, no business should have problems with part time employees, but some do because their management is bad at their jobs and can't work out resource allocation or proper timelines.

I think your employer would be more likely to agree it if you just ask to work 4 days a week rather than specifically asking for a Friday off. That could be the hardest day for them to cover seeing as it’s a popular day for people to take annual leave on.

A Monday might be easier for them to manage or mid week like a Wednesday.

It immediately jumps out to me that a midweek day would be better.

I would put the request in and say you don't mind which day.

As a manager that would endear you to me much more.

Their reason is totally acceptable.

I do compressed hours, and spend an hour checking in to my emails on a Monday evening which is my off day.

People get a same day response on the Monday, I'm prepped for the week without interruption, and my working days are that little bit shorter.

It's a great balance.

It doesn't work for the business only because the management is incompetent. It's not like op is asking for 100% pay for 80% hours. They want to go part time. There is no reason they shouldn't be able to do this besides management being completely incapable of sorting out deadlines and resource allocation for projects.

Put it this way, if you have 5 people on your team, and one person reduces their hours by 20%, that's functionally equivalent to having 4.8 people on the team (as you've also reduced the staffing burden).

You can either increase resources by hiring someone new (maybe a 50% part timer) or you can reduce expected output and turnaround.

Viewing it any other way (which OP's employer is bound to do) is incompetent. Unfortunately the law doesn't protect employees from incompetent management, so OPs request is likely to be legally deniable.