can SS or CAHMS in effect force a parent to resign...

[needavice888]

...in order to provide 24/7 suicide watch over the child which has been let down over and over by the services for months in end despite asking/crying for help over and over again.. The only solution is now to force the parent to provide 24/7 suicide watch without providing additional therapy or help ans without any regard for the parent's need to work and provide and the impact it has on siblings. Parent has no support network. What happens if parent is ignoring the safety plan and goes to work (not for a jolly but to simply earn a living and to provide for the children).

Thanks for acknowledging that. Bashing social services for the failings of CAMHS is a common mistake many people make.

The direct but unpleasant answer is that if you ignore the safety plan, your child could be hurt, and/or social services could initiate a child protection plan (which is extra pressure/stress you don't need)

And you think unemployment, homelessness, depravation is an extra stress she does need?

It isn't possible to keep afloat with other children and offer 24/7 suicide watch.

OP, I'm sorry. I've had experience of where you are, eventually they were sectioned and foster care became involved.

There are difficulties in both, but a key difference is CAMHS can agree that a child has serious needs but put them on a waiting list. SS don't have waiting lists but then overload the workers so the service is ineffective. Really wish there was proper investment for both services, especially given the increase in mental health issues for young people

well, I have several children. one of them has complex needs. It's hard as it is without support. it's easy to say take unpaid leave when this is completely unaffordable. We are going to end up homeless if I cannot keep my job. Not sure how that is going to improve anything. we tried to get camhs to help for a long time. and they still don't. we just have gotten the suicide watch plan. that is their only intervention. if they are not going to help, they can frankly fuck off. they cannot have it both ways.

@SlowBoiledFrog I answered the OPs question. When did I say I agreed with the approach?

@needavice888 I'd suggest seeking advice from SS and citizens advice about whether there is any financial support you can apply for in the circumstances. There isn't likely to be an alternative to you caring for your child, irrespective of how pressured it is. If she was admitted you'd need to be taking time off work to spend at the hospital. I mean this genuinely, what sort of alternative are you hoping for? Presumably you don't want her in foster care, they can't provide people to watch her while you're at work?

I’m sorry OP. I would state very clearly this is not an option. Over and over and insist it is minutes and ask what their plan is. My DH had to do this for his (adult) sister because they were trying to discharge her to our house and we simply couldn’t take that kind of responsibility with SEN kids in the house. Eventually they gave in and made a supported living plan which was much better for her as well as us.

Social services cannot provide accommodation for children with severe mental health needs and suicidality. That is a CAMHS/NHSduty. Social services are not ineffective. We effect huge positive change in the lives of thousands of children every day. I will not argue that we are underfunded but ineffective we are not.

I really feel for you op. No advice, but sending sympathy.

I was lucky that dd stabilised by herself, more or less, because if I'd been relying on Camhs to help then I don't know what would have happened. They told me a) her suicide attempts weren't serious enough to be genuine and b) she needed the ASD assessment to be completed (like you, several years' wait) before deciding whether she needed separate Camhs support. I still worry that she might relapse. She's still depressed, but not suicidal.

So, I don't have any idea how to access the support you need, but sending hugs and hopes that you get it.

I’m not sure if they can force you to but a friend was in a similar situation and both her and her husband had to drop their hours to part time and work opposite shifts for exactly this reason. They had to stay like this for well over a year

If your child requires 24 hours supervision because of sucide risk, they should not be in your care. They need to be hospitalised. Even if it goes to Child Protection - it in your child best interest (and your other children). I think you need to go back and say this is affecting your other children and you are at risk of being homeless.

There are a number of other options you could explore first,

Parental leave, co passionate leave.

Is there any possibility of temporary wfh?

I had a child who developed severe illness as a teen and I just about managed to hang on to my job but it wasn't easy.

What’s your understanding of why she is feeling like taking her own life?

Sorry I re read - CHC is for over 18’s, regardless no one can be expected to be on call 24/7. It’s not realistic. Hospital.

24 hour supervision is not possible for a single parent. You need to sleep for a start. They need to be in hospital if this is what they need.

I am already part time and there is no partner to share the load.

Hi,

Of course they can’t force you to resign. The safety plan is a recommendation, as would be a recommendation for an inpatient or residential placement when a family has done everything they can and no longer feel able to manage at home.

it is a shared responsibility across services. CAMHS are there to provide psychological support /medication/ safety and crisis planning.They may recommend an inpatient stay if you are having to keep taking your child to A&E. Spcial care would be providing carer/ respite support in the home. Although 24hr crisis watch sounds to me like grounds for inpatient admission, I havent come across anyone on that care plan before. At the point of needing inpatient stay it no longer would be sitting under generic CAMHs teams as it would be classed as tier 4 (CAMHS only supports to tier 3). Social care are there to provide the support needed to keep someone at home and manage any transitions to other living placements / carer support.

the reason CAMhS are not providing ongoing therapy is probably because of the level of need- therapy isn’t offered as a first line treatment when people are in active crisis unless the person is able and wants to engage with it. Often in crisis they just can’t, and then it gets really hard because things have gone too far to provide meaningful therapy support.

they won't talk to anyone. nobody knows. they have undiagnosed ASD and a host of related issues due to unmet needs esp at school but I have no idea what the cause it. zero engagement

Camhs are shit.

If you are in London take child to Maudsley Hospital - they have a 24 hour emergency mental health clinic. They arranged for a then teenager I know to be immediately admitted after CAMhS and other hospitals just sent them home and added to a long waiting list.

I need to even share the bed with DC and cannot sleep alone. It's 24/7. literally. I have been instructed not to let DC sleep alone and that I need to check on them at night too. I am too scared to go to sleep now in case they do something whilst I am in deep sleep.

I had to stop working when my oldest was 15 (sole parent and penniless after that) as no support whatsoever.

I'm sure there are normal people who work for CAMHS. We never met one.

Oh I’m so sorry so firstly wanted to say that I hope you are taking care of yourself as much as is possible. My son tried to take his own life four times and was hospitalised each time. I missed a fair bit of work due to this. On attempt no 4 he had a MHAA but it was decided not to section him but to look for a residential facility. I was signed off by my GP at that point but was lucky my work paid in full for the first 12 weeks.
when the residential placement came up, we viewed it and both hated it. I told him he could stay at home. At that point I knew I had to return to work. I ended up saying to him that I couldn’t keep him safe anymore. It doesn’t matter how little time you leave them, if they want to carry it through then they will. So I said I couldn’t stop him. That I loved him and he was wanted and needed.
fortunately for us he turned a corner. We withdrew him from school and that really helped.
So, can you see what your sickness pay is at work? If it’s doable get signed off?

@GuestFeatu not intending to derail the thread - I'm also in SS. You may have worked in better managed authorities than I have, in my experience SS have a lot of good staff but are too overloaded and the work suffers. Im not criticizing individual workers but the system rarely supports them to practice as well as they could do.

The situation with the lack of support for mental health has always been bad, but is so much worse with the increased demand since covid.

@Frith2013 really sorry this happened to you. hope you are in a better place now.
Your camhs comment made me giggle. Couldn't agree more.

How many times has DC tried?

Real help comes rather farther down the process than makes sense.