Aggressive child and parents don’t seem to care

[Herewegoagain5]

I mind 3 children in my home part time, the three of them have been the sweetest kids, they are not related but I have been minding them for just over a year.

one has now become very aggressive, throwing toys at walls and the other kids, kicking them, hitting them.

he doesn’t listen when I tell him to stop, throws a tantrum if I remove him for the situation.

I have told his parents each time at collection and their response is oh that’s not nice but we do try to encourage gentle hands!!

it’s not working and they don’t believe in time out and asked me not to do it but he’s now becoming a danger to the other kids as he kicked one in the head yesterday as she lay on the ground playing with dolls

they are all 2

AIBU to say I can’t mind him anymore unless I can punish him (time out)

I agree. When it all comes down to it this is her business. I'd sit the parents down one last time and ask where do we go from here. After that I'd let him go. Childminders have a hard time because I think many parents think it's childminders job to fix things. Its not.

"Behaviour is communication" only fully applies once the child has developed a theory of mind, and understands some social norms and behavioural boundaries. Before this point they need adults to guide them and show them what is and is not acceptable.

I'm sure the OP means "consequences" rather than "punishment" eg, toy bricks are not for throwing so the bricks go away etc

I wouldn't say those parents don't care but they clearly don't know what to do. I agree with the idea of a formal approach and saying you cannot mind him due to health abd safety ie his current behaviour is a risk to the safety of other children for which you have a duty of care. Therefore your provision is not suitable for him if you cannot put in place the measures you need.

This thread is a bit bizarre. The OP is trying to deal with looking after someone else's undisciplined toddler who is hurting the other children in her care. She has tried to tell the child's parents that his behaviour is not acceptable and she is every right to refuse to continue to look after him. Two is not too young for a child to understand that biting and kicking is not normal behaviour and that he can't continue to behave like this. The parents' 'gentle hands' bollocks clearly isn't working and they sound completely disinterested in taking responsibility for their offspring. I don't see that the OP has any choice but to refuse to have this child any more.

I think 2 is definitely old enough for a firm "No, don't throw those blocks please. We don't throw blocks because we might hurt our friends'. Followed by a sharper "No, the blocks are not for throwing please. If you throw the blocks again, they will be put away". Then if the bad behaviour is repeated, follow through with the consequence - in this case, removing the blocks. For an older toddler (nearer 3 than 1), I would also make them come and sit next to me for a couple of minutes to help them 'remember' to play nicely.

The reality is that carers in communal childcare settings don't have the time or resources reliably to predict or avoid everything that will trigger individual children. The children need to understand, fairly quickly, that certain behaviour is unacceptable, both for their own safety and the safety of the other children. I am far from being a dragon of a parent and would actually put myself at the indulgent end of the spectrum, but childcare with other children is unsuitable imo for parents who do not ever want their children to hear the word 'no' or face consequences for their actions. They'd do better to hire a nanny, if they can find one who is willing to bleat 'gentle hands' when hit in the face with a wooden shape-sorter!

They're taking the piss, and if they're saying "remember" gentle hands and feet, they are aware he's rough and also aware this is having no effect since he's clearly not stopping (because you've told them how he behaves).

Do you keep incident reports? I think you need to if you don't already.

Keep a record of incidents o er the course of a week and present it to the parents. Tell them the "gentle hands/ feet" reminders are having no effect.

Tell them you're sorry, but you'll have to let him go as you cannot jeopardise the safety of the other children under your care.

The rest of the parents are going to start taking their children elsewhere if they keep on coming home with bruises or talking about the rough kid and what he does.

Agree.

Two year olds can experience consequences for their actions.

Toddler is hitting someone with a train? The train is taken away and he isn’t allowed to play with it.

Toddler is pushing/hitting? He/She is removed from the play room to calm down.

An articulate 2.5 year old can work out the consequences themselves. “What do you think is going to happen if you keep doing that?” “Mummy take it away.” Yes, exactly.

I would give them notice and stop minding him. It's not ok that the other kids are being hit and attention taken away from them as they are so little. You also don't want the other parents to pull their kids out or become known as the minder who had a 'problem' with kids being in your care.

I really don’t like “gentle hands” because it implies that it’s ok for a child to be touching another child as long as they do it gently (as opposed to pushing/hitting etc) but sometimes the other child doesn’t want to be touched at all.

They have mentioned that he can be quite rough with them at home too so they are well aware

i do keep incident reports, the other two parents are aware.

all two year olds slap and such im not saying iv never come across this before I’m saying iv never come across a child who hits and kicks another child simply because they are in the room. All occasions has happened while the children were playing separately. He likes trucks they like dolls they generally don’t take each others toys because they like different things

Agree with @BreatheAndFocus at 17:26

YANBU

If the child is that violent, you risk losing the other children’s business. Better to tell his parents you can no longer offer him a place and explain why.

All behaviour is communication applies from birth, e.g. unpicking why a baby is crying wet/dirty/hungry/tired, and continues to apply as they grow. A child of 2yo doesn't deliberately behave poorly, there will be a reason behind it, it could be them expressing frustration or because they don't have the words to ask nicely. It has nothing to do with societal norms at this age.

How's your knowledge of child development?

In our old nursery when a child was consistently and repeatedly aggressively like this, they would be removed from the situation. It was more like a ‘time in’ because a staff member would remain with them and comfort them until calm, talk to them and try again – rinse and repeat.

I’m assuming you cannot take the child elsewhere as no one is there to watch the other two?

Regardless, it was not something the parent could request they not do – it was a non-negotiable and of the parent didn’t like it they were free to leave the nursery.

OP, I think you need more professional input than MN. Don't listen to those telling you you're not cut out for childminding, you're not a child psychiatrist that's all. Who knows what id going on in the wee ones head or in the family. Ask a professional for help, it's the responsable thing to do. And tell the parents you are asking since they don't seem to think that his behaviour is problematic. I would be concerned if it was my boy..

What are the other parents saying about their children being assaulted? I'd give the aggressive childs parents notice, you need to safeguard the other children. Poor things, they'll end up terrified to come to you.

Could there be (other) early indicators of neuro divergence? In a nursery or preschool setting you'd discuss concerns with a SENCo, who do you refer to as a childminder?

"quite rough" I'm guessing is minimising what he's really like!

From your description of the aggression being random ie not during an interaction with other kids, I have coincidentally spoken to our cm about this a couple of years ago as I have a friend who's 2yo was like this to the point I avoided seeing my friend for months as her DD would just attack my DS with no prior engagement/warning, she once actually ran across a large grassy area just to grab his hair and shake his head using his hair. It was really upsetting. Anyway our CM said it's quite unusual for a toddler to hit/kick without it being part of an existing interaction e.g. another kid took the toy he had.

There are books about all sorts of things from esoteric interests to rare diseases. That doesn’t mean they have a big market. In fact, I’ve never seen a book about toddlers not kicking, biting or hurting people.

It does not happen a lot! A small number of toddlers exhibit persistent kicking, biting, punching, etc. Most don’t

@BreatheAndFocus honestly, spend any length of time in a group of two year olds and you’ll see a fair amount of biting, pinching, hitting, kicking and shoving.

It isn’t pleasant. They do need to be ‘trained’ out of it. Saying something is normal isn’t the same as saying it’s acceptable; it isn’t. But … it’s normal.

It doesn't matter why he is behaving this way. He is hurting other children which is unacceptable. He should be removed from the other children until he learns he can't hurt them because they have the right to be protected from him.

This is unfair on the other children. They shouldn't have to tolerate being kicked in the head.

Either the parents agree to your discipline, or they find alternative provision for their son. It's that simple.

Um, I have!! Children will push and shove when provoked but persistent kicking, biting and punching unprovoked in a child of this age is not usual.

OP, don't doubt yourself.
The behavior you describe is not the norm.
Biting is not the norm.
One child I came across did it and the mum had several weeks of picking him up fimly and removing him from wherever they were.
It was very stressful but she told him NO, picked him up and immediately left.
It worked.
That is over several years and dozens, and dozens of children.
The odd child might grab and be a little rough, but what you describe, absolutely not.

I think the suggestion of telling the parents that you will be calling them for him to be collected is a good one.

Protect those other children.
Those parents have every right to be concerned if they realise their child is being hurt.

IMO "gentle hands" parents are the absolute worst.
Their children are often feral and unbearable to be around.