Drunk friend so nasty

[Peppermilk24]

I met with a group of friends last night to celebrate a milestone birthday for one of them. One of the group got extremely drunk - this is quite usual for this person - however last night I was shocked at the sheer excess of it. 2 bottles of wine downed in under 1.5 hours and this person became so so nasty and belligerent. She has approached me previously with concerns about their drinking and I have tried to steer them towards help (Im not qualified in any way) all of which was ignored. Last night the level of horrible behaviour was shocking. shouting, nasty tone of voice, calling people out on things that happened in their relationships years ago, crying and then butting in on conversations going around her. I tried to speak to her twice and she ignored me completely (or perhaps couldnt hear me).

It was so sad as her partner was their with their adult children and other relatives of hers and I could see her children visibly wincing at one stage. I normally dont be in her company whilst she drinks but it was a friends bday and she had been invited along. My DH mentioned it to me on the way home in the cab. He was disgusted with her DH for not stepping in and trying to at least minimise the behaviour if he couldnt get her to go home.

She has divulged private information about some of our friends and her own family and said some really horrible things including trying to force a friend to talk about her husband who died last year from cancer and telling her she was being so selfish and self absorbed when she wouldnt as he was "my friend too".

She has called me this morning and I havent picked up. I know from another friend who was there last night that she has been on the phone this morning breezily saying what a great night it was, sore heads all around and that we all over did it. Im so livid with her I cant chat to her at the minute but part of me feels sorry for her as she clearly has a drink problem. Why do some alcoholics become so nasty, is the drink or is it that the are like this underneath and it just comes out with drink. DH is fuming also - he has known her as long as I have - and honestly he just says she is a liability at this stage. I feel guilty and angry and upset for her in each measures.

I dont know if I can be friends with her though as she isnt prepared to listen. She wont meet up with me 1-1 unless its in a bar, Ive suggested coffee, cinema etc and the one time she went for coffee with me she asked the guy if he could make Irish coffee. She was then angry that I wouldnt go to the pub next door. Ive spoken to her husband about my concerns and he says that he has spoken with her also to no avail. What do I do?

I think you should just step back and leave them to it. She won’t change and stop drinking until she wants to-and clearly she hasn’t reached that point yet. That old adage of you can’t fix it, you can’t change it, you can only alter your response and how you act. So step away.

You need to tell her exactly what you've written. She wont understand the impact shes having on others unless shes told (or show her the post)

I also had a friend like this I had to back off from. Would only meet for a morning coffee from then on

I can understand your anger and reluctance to talk to your friend at the moment. Alcoholism, like any addiction, is ugly and it is devastating - not only to the addict but to all around them.

if you do decide to speak to her about her drinking again it is likely she will get defensive and shut down - none of us like being called out even when it’s something we should be called out on!

If you do have the conversation with her it can be helpful to use questions e.g. tell her you’re worried about her, she asks why and you put it back to her ‘do you have any idea why I, and others, might be worried about you?’ She may or may not answer truthfully. Once alcohol is raised as a concern try questioning her about it rather than listing your concerns - ask if she has ever worried about her drinking, does she think her drinking has affected her life negatively, has it affected other peoples lives, has she ever thought how her life might be without alcohol etc.

it is very true that the only person who can do anything about an addiction is the addict themselves, however this type of conversation can be helpful in at least making the person less likely to react in a defensive way and possibly acknowledge there is a problem - a first step to doing something about it hopefully.

I agree with this - I was a different person when I drank. Some people seem to change with alcohol - seeing that change happen is always a huge red flag for me. However, even though I may not have been in control of everything I did, I was still responsible for everything I did. I knew what alcohol did to me, and I still picked it up. I've been sober for 22 years now, but I can still very easily imagine how your friend is feeling now. That hungover fear and panic is unreal - as is the desperation to somehow "normalise" everything. Not saying you should feel sorry for her, by the way - she needs to go through this. You are absolutely right in not enabling her behaviour.

Alcoholism is a disease and a mental illness. No one ‘allows’ anyone else to be mentally unwell, which your friend clearly is.

"Alcoholism is a disease" first started in the US and was used so that alcoholics could get treatment on insurance. This enables them to think it's an illness, not their fault, and can do nothing about it. An alcoholic needs to accept responsibility and help themselves. I've experience with a family member.

It's horrible to watch someone go through this , her husband has lived it for years I don't think he can see any other way of life , she probably needs inpatient treatment and counselling to help her but if she can't accept she has a problem in the first place all of that is pointless. I Watched my aunt live like this unfortunately she died from aspiring vomit whilst passed out drunk alone. The nastiness and the unwillingness to accept that there is a problem made me stop spending time with her . I think you should maybe explain to her that you have to distance yourself from her because of her behaviour while drinking. It probably won't stop her drinking but if other people say the same it might create a reason for her to get help.

I really feel it is unacceptable for you and your husband to blame the husband. If you want to say something say it to the woman herself your husband had no right to lose it with his friend, this isn’t the 50s. She’s not a possession, he doesn’t control her. And it shows so limited understanding of alcoholism that you’d think this is the approach. I’m fairly disgusted by it.

He said she must have been having a hard week for years and that he was a disgrace for enabling her alcoholism

I'm sad and angry and worried but we can only offer help and hope that its accepted

yeah op. Very helpful. You didn’t offer help. Your husband rolled in and went on the attack, egged on by you no doubt/

Her husband is not responsible for her behaviour but he sure as shit is responsible for his. And that includes failing in his equal responsibility to protect his children.

You cannot sit back and do nothing to ensure your children are not harmed on the grounds that it is the other parents actions that are harming them, and yes, that goes equally for fathers and mothers.

Oh its not my fault my partner neglects or abuses our children, so I will do nothing, and if anyone criticises me for doing nothing, then they're blaming the wrong person.

No.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions and inactions, and that includes actions and inactions in response to the behaviour of another person.

Well put.

Well done your H for having the backbone to tell her H some home truths. Her H has enabled this at the expense of their children it appears.

She sounds pathetic and he is making sure everyone around her thinks it is all ok/fun/just a laugh and "what a great evening it was" i.e. keep schtum and pretend her behaviour was fine.

What a selfish couple. The only way of helping her is to let her pick up her own mess. A person I knew always picked up literally and emotionally after his alcoholic wife, until one day he didnt. He left her outside laid in her own filth in the garden. That was the start of her getting better.

Enabling this woman has to stop.

Remember it's the alcohol talking, not her. I'd stop going out with her there. I'm sure if you explain to your friends, they'll agree and want to exclude her from future events. She has to hit rock bottom to want to change. Let her lose her friends to realise that she needs help. When she does change, organise some alcohol free nights e.g. bowling.

I'd avoid getting pulled into the drama.
Because this poor woman is quite the group entertainment isn't she?
There's no point trying to score points off her in terms of contesting her drunken insults about people, to 'prove' she's a bad person.

What's really going on is you feel guilty for not being able to be her friend anymore. It doesn't feel good so you've to find 'reasons' to cut ties with her. That creates drama when people all discuss it later.

There's too many people sticking their beaks in. She's an alcoholic. Her children have already suffered. If you want to stage an 'intervention' it has to be done with love and compassion by someone very close to her, not a witch-hunt to tell how what a bitch she is.

Her DH could be encouraged to go to an Al Anon meeting for family of alcoholics.

Tell her you are angry with her. Explain she has a problem. She gets angry- wait for the dust to settle and tell her again. Tell her you want to be friends with her and you want to support her but she needs help. Tell her you will go with her to the GP/support group. Keep telling her. Keep trying- don't dump her she needs support if you can give it. She is ill.
One of my very close friends was a very lovely drunk, an alcoholic and he didn't wake up one morning aged 45. I wish I'd pushed him more x

I think your husband was good to say it straight to the other husband. Maybe he needed to hear it.

I also thought that her comment that there are 'lots of sore heads today' was her projecting her own standards onto others, who were not that drunk and do not have a sore head....! She is trying to bring others onto her level to normalise her level.

As regards what you do now, you can either just stop responding and avoid her socially, or you can text her and say why you are not seeing her anymore. I think the friendship is over as she has revealed that she is not very nice, she makes everyone uncomfortable and angry and she says awful things when drunk.

Funnily enough I've just gone through a really similar situation - a group holiday for my 50th where one friend absolutely disgraced himself from start to finish and ruined the holiday. What I did was, send him a WhatsApp a few days after we got back explaining that our friendship is over and why. I thought it would be so odd for me to not sit and play with him (we play instruments together, known for it) but I am no longer able to be his friend. I have had to be careful of other people, all who knew, and it didn't feel good to tell the stories on why I have ended the friendship, but at the end of the day I can't unsee what I saw, I can't unfeel the consequences and I cannot have a friend who behaves as he does. What he chooses to do next is on him. We have seen him. We gather he is embarrassed and feels he 'went too far this time.' I felt bad at that point, and actually went to speak to him to check he was OK - 'hi, are you OK? Yes? Good' - but he sensed that it was not OK to come and sit with us and we left without saying goodbye to him. He looked cleaner and more kept and his behaviour was subdued.

Those that say you can't make the other person change are very right I think - there is nothing I can say to make my friend see - he thought his behaviour was acceptable - so let him reap the consequences of it.

Same for your friend OP. I would send the WhatsApp message, out of honour to your own anger - let her know how embarrassing she is, how hurtful, how she raises eyebrows behind her back, how she ruins nights, how embarrassing she is - and say that you cannot tolerate it and the friendship ends here. What she does then is up to her. My friend already knew by the time we got back and it seems he has taken it on board and calmed down, but the deep seated contemptuousness that he displayed? That is a deeper issue, and like your friend, she may need to address that, and you not telling her how she is coming across will not do her any favours.

I have a friend like this. I've stopped seeing her now really-might see her in the day for a coffee or something-but she ruined every night out so I've just disengaged from it. Too much drama, not enough back from her to make it worth it.

She wont meet up with me 1-1 unless its in a bar, Ive suggested coffee, cinema etc and the one time she went for coffee with me she asked the guy if he could make Irish Coffee

Could easily be an ex friend of mine, that. She wouldn't meet anywhere that didn't serve alcohol, and either I drove out of my way to pick her up and drop her home, or I got to live with the fact that she'd likely drive home after 2-3+ pints. Funnily enough I stopped meeting up with her.

I am proud of your DH for speaking up and for your friend for slapping the leaflets down. Comes a time you have to realise that silence is facilitation. (Husband included obviously). Until she is sober, she is not the friend she used to be, I’m afraid.

think your husband was good to say it straight to the other husband. Maybe he needed to hear it.

what its good he lost his shit and verbally attacked. Righto. You think he doesnt know.and thats nog why they are all making calls today. You dont see a reason hes not telling all and sundry the conversations at home. You dont see how diffucult it is when there is young kids? There is another thread from a woman married to an alcoholic. No one is abusing her, “cos she needs to hear it”

Just do that. Life's too short to put up with that rubbish.

This is one of the most sensible posts I've seen on this thread.

I think the question to ask yourself here OP is what is this situation doing for you? What is it giving you (? Connection with your other friends as they feel the same way? The 'excitement' that can come with drama, even when it's horrible drama?), but also what is it costing you (? Your own wellbeing, feeling angry afterwards or worried beforehand as you can predict how these meetings will end and know it's deeply unpleasant for you?)

You will not be able to force your friend to stop drinking. Nor is it her DH's responsibility either. You can only control your response to her behaviour and choices. By all accounts it sounds as though she can't connect with her friends unless alcohol is involved, and that's not something that works for you. It's totally ok for you to decide this isn't a friendship that serves you anymore and to just walk away from it. It will likely still feel sad, but is this a friendship you genuinely want anymore?

Stop making excuses.

The kids are adults now, it says so in the OP. Highly likely badly damaged by the family dynamics.

Enablers need to see the light as much as the alcoholic does, to make changes.

Who in the group does she respect the most? Would them talking to her make a difference? It seems that she won't listen to you but maybe she's not that close with you compared to another group member?

I know it's not nice behind her back but id contact the others and see how they want to proceed.

If they want to do an intervention id go along. ie invite her to lunch and hit her with the harsh truth and tell her she's loved but her drinking needs to change.

If they want to send her a group WhatsApp message to say her drunken behaviour was unacceptable last night and until she can come tell her drinking she's not welcome, id be up for that.

Or just don't bother replying. Or reply to say "youre a mean nasty drunk who embarrassed herself and her family and friends and I don't want to go out with you again". Id be up for that too.

The husband knows the score.
Honestly, he's probably known for some time and has been unable to stop the drinking. I know that from my past partner. It's heartbreaking but he's maybe staying fur the children or something but he's needing to see what he wants from life because she is destroying hers. If she's that nasty shes maybe hitting the husband too.

I had a friend like this , no longer though ,in fact she now has very few friends as everyone in our circle has been on the receiving end of her at one time or another.
We have all had enough of her speaking her mind when drunk and enough's enough now.
Although i feel uneasy about no longer seeing someone i did consider a friend when i think back to how nasty and intimidating i have seen her be i do not miss that and i have no plans to have her in my life again.
Life is to short to have nasty vindictive people in it.

"She has called me this morning and I havent picked up. I know from another friend who was there last night that she has been on the phone this morning breezily saying what a great night it was, sore heads all around and that we all over did it."

So, when did she leave you the crying message after your DH spoke to her DH then? Was it last night? You're saying that she is aware of how awful she was at some stage?

Why don't you phone the host / birthday person and ask how they are, have they heard from drunk friend? Tell her that you're done with drunk friend and won't be seeing her again and hope that it didn't completely spoil his/her evening and offer to take him/her out for lunch just the two of you to make up for it.

Tell drunk friend you're done when you've calmed down a little and have rehearsed something unarguable with to say to her.

Your husband has now said something to her husband, so surely it's time to disengage.

People always seem to have less understanding when it's the women doing the abusing- and she will be abusing her husband in her drunken state, too. Try not to think too harshly of him - his life must be hell. I say this because my husband once had an alcoholic partner who used to threaten and blackmail him and he didn't think he could afford to leave, financially. He tried to protect their daughter, my DSD, within the house, as much as he could. 'Thankfully' that situation is now over because she drank herself to death. That man will need support, as will the kids. They are her biggest victims.

I would take a step back from her, but if he's also a friend, I would try to remain supportive to him if you can.