Time for a new PM and Chancellor?

[Whenwillitgetwarm]

I wrote this on another thread but feel it should have its own thread.

Although I voted Labour (the current Tory’s are too insane), I think it may be time to swap out Starmer and Reeves. If this is done early, there’s enough parliament time left to bed a new PM and Chancellor in.

They both lack ideas, seem confused, no vision etc. They had 14 years to think up workable plans. Coming in and throwing their hands up saying there’s no money so they can’t do anything is very poor. They want to continue austerity on the sly. They indulge in stupid culture wars like VAT to rob Peter to pay Paul (and Paul won’t see a penny anyway). They have bad advisors and are arrogant. It looks like they are just excited to have the job titles and don’t know what to do.

Get a top two who will come up with a bold plan. We’re in the gutter so there’s opportunities to deliver quick wins. They don’t always need funding, simple policy changes can make big and quick differences. If they gave each department a target to deliver one quick legislative win by Christmas, we’d start 2025 differently.

Unfortunately we’re stuck with two people who can’t believe their luck, and who are afraid of the Daily Mail, Murdoch, some loud Redwall types and bots on X who wish our country economic harm. They are weak.

If Labour were a football team, there would be fans screaming for Starmer to be sacked now.

This is not about getting rid of Labour. I believe there is talent in the wider party, much more than in the Conservatives who hollowed out their party under Johnson. Nevertheless I just don’t think Starmer and Reeves should have their roles.

PandoraSox
I don't remember any threads on all the freebies enjoyed by Tories and Labour last Summer.

Really?

The problem for Starmer is that he kept spouting stuff like this:

Keir Starmer: ‘I’m not like Boris Johnson. There’s almost nothing we have in common’.

'I am well aware of the cynicism people hold towards politicians at the moment... Service of our country is the reason – and the only reason – why I am standing here now – asking for your vote.'

That’s not what I asked. I know what you think about Alli’s donations. What about the ones Jenrick is receiving?

Still less than Johnson accepted from ONE donor. And Starmer has refunded too.

Well, he’s not, is he? He declared everything as per the rules.

Labour have written to the Electoral Commission asking for an investigation.

I look forward to reading their reply.

Not in the specific example tweeted by James O'Brien - we need to add at least £16,000 to Starmer's figure. Johnson refunded all of the donations for the flat decor - Starmer has only paid out £6,000.

You understand that was only one donation to Johnson, not all of them? O’Brien used one example to show the scale of the difference - all Starmer’s donations compared to one of Johnson’s.

Starmer has had to 're-categorise' several items and the general consensus is that he appears greedy and grabby.

Keir Starmer's glasses cost more than Boris Johnson's 'gold wallpaper'!

Starmer's 'luxury eyewear' is valued at £2,485 - the 'gold wallpaper' a bit less at £2,250.

the consensus is a bit irrelevant. He followed the rules. Johnson didn’t until forced to, then lied about it for a bit. And that’s just on one donation we know about. He took way, way more.
But I do think all gifts to MPs should be banned, as they are to civil servants.

Can you link to any threads from last summer about these issues, please Clav?

cardibach
the consensus is a bit irrelevant

Oh really.

[Johnson] took way, way more

How much more (in gifts and hospitality, not donations to his office, or earnings and whilst still an MP)? Bearing in mind that Johnson refunded the flat donations - plus the estimate that he received £27,000 worth of organic food 'free' is incorrect - Johnson paid for the food at 'cost price' saving about £8,000/£9,000 - not £27,000.

If Keir Starmer had been offered more high value freebies would he have accepted more? I think the answer to that is 'yes'.

All the papers carried the story and there were photos of him there.

You do know that Lord Alli is a member of the HoL and got the pass for a specific event he was organising? And that as a member of the HoL he would already have had significant access to the Westminster estate in any case?

@caringcarer all the papers ? Which ones ?
What was all that stuff about the 900k that Johnson received from various donors ? And the villa he borrowed from the Lebedevs, the ‘former’ KGB operatives that later got lordships.

Honest bob Jenrick lol.

What exactly are you trying to prove ? The fact that thousands of former life long Tory voters couldn’t bring themselves to vote for them says that many couldn’t stomach the corruption. 14 years of it. Wasn’t Starmer entirely transparent about accepting some of the donations whereas BJ wasn’t, in fact he actually tried to enact legislation to protect dodgy Tory MPs from being held accountable ?

Agree that the devil is in the detail. Labour not good at messaging as it still sounds like they’re campaigning, not helped by the right wing press. And I’m hoping that the govt will get policy right but the business secretary being interviewed didn’t inspire confidence.

I think we can safely say if one gift of Johnson’s exceeded all of Starmer’s that Johnson had substantially more without having to have a big hunt for exactly how much don’t you? Or are you suggesting that was the on,y gift he ever received? (Off the top of my head, there were also villas for holidays, food during lockdown, his wedding etc etc). Your quibble about food can be matched by the fact that Starmer pays for his season ticket. It’s the upgrade to a secure area he’s been given.

We can’t say what he would or wouldn’t have accepted, can we? We can say what Johnson’s did. Or at least insofar as he bothered to declare it.

cardibach
I think we can safely say if one gift of Johnson’s exceeded all of Starmer’s that Johnson had substantially more without having to have a big hunt for exactly how much don’t you?

I don't think we can safely say anything. James O'Brien's calculation that the donation for the flat decor is £12,500 less than the total of hospitality and gifts declared by Keir Starmer was tweeted 7 days before the revelation that Starmer had accepted an extra £16,000 worth of clothes. More Taylor Swift tickets and several other items have also been added to Starmer's tally;

Boris Johnson refunded the cost of the flat decor back to the donor/s - James O'Brien neglected to mention that.

Your quibble about food can be matched by the fact that Starmer pays for his season ticket. It’s the upgrade to a secure area he’s been given.

The value of Starmer's upgrade hasn't been included in his tally in any case.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/27/peer-gave-keir-starmer-more-clothes-worth-16000-declared-as-money-for-private-office

Crystalbits
What exactly are you trying to prove?

As the prime minister marks 100 days in office on Saturday, a pair of damning polls show his approval rating plummeting and almost half of those who voted for Labour saying they feel let down.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-labour-polls-government-gray-b2627755.html

You know why Starmer's rating is so low?

I can think of three reasons immediately.

1. Because he has been a slight disappointment re WFA
2. Because the media won't leave him alone and are pulling him up for all kinds of non issues that are neither illegal nor unprecedented. Remember the fuss because he said he aims to spend Friday evening with his family? What a cad.
3. Because some people somehow expected him to find that magic money tree and solve all the country's ills in the first week.

The Guardian article highlights another reason;

The row over Alli’s donations risks defining Labour’s first months in office... The risks are particularly high for Starmer, given his repeated election pledges to be a contrast to the sleaze and self-interest of the Conservatives.

See my #2 point.

Have any other Labour politicians accepted £32,000 worth of clothes and glasses recently? Or 10 tickets for Taylor Swift on 3 separate dates? Or a luxury flat for their son to revise in?

The use of so many sailing based analogies when they're in the middle of 'PO gate' is highly amusing.