Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools

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Article in the Observer here:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

I must say they've gone very quiet on it.

They are right though; the poor wages can be linked back to tax credits as can housing inflation. It has resulted in the majority of the population doing the absolute bare minimum. Many people just hanging around in poorly paid, unqualified work instead of using it as stepping stone. All the while trying to tax, tax, tax people who chose the opposite to fund their lifestyle choices.

It is why we are in a mess and it’s why we aren’t comparable to successful European counterparts. The only way this will change is if more people are contributing more. So more tax on lower and middle earners and contribution based sick and unemployment benefits like in other countries. That may focus the mind as we have a productivity problem.

this problem is not as straightforward as you are making out. There are all sorts of issues and reasons for people not earning much money...

e.g. poor education, personal circumstances, the availabity/variety of jobs in the area they live.

if you are going to look at scandi countries and why they do well, you need to look at the whole picture, not just bits of it.

I don’t need your pity. Those like you who are keen to shout the odds at others and their choices should think more carefully about their own involvement in the issues the country faces. Anyone self funding has been doing you and others like you a massive favour. Maybe you have been absent from the other feeds which comment on high tax payers lifestyles all the while being unable to cover their families costs. It’s absolutely disgusting.

In Wales our council pay the education bill out of our council tax. It's over 30% this year apparently. They did a chart for us.

We also get free breakfasts and lunches at our primary school, it's not means tested.

The Welsh government believe that many children in Wales are malnourished because of problems at home, money, fecklessness.

It's a long term experiment to see if children perform better, learn more which will break a cycle

I have said for years that the state subsidises low wages for big companies through UC and its predecessor. Now the minimum wage has gone up that becomes less an issue and same with the personal tax allowance which went up quite bit (for those lucky enough still to get a personal tax allowance) as of course does having 18m more people in the UK than when I was born an 1.2m immigration (640k net immigration).

Scandi countries charge low and mid earners much higher taxes. Because that is what is fair.

Ultimately I think it’s very sad that people have children with no intention of feeding them properly or paying their taxes. A lack of ambition sits at its core and it needs tackling most urgently.

I do. It’s a whole mindset. Here we penalise success, hate it. We’d rather everyone be poor equally. The difference is huge in mindset. Scandi countries will not penalise high earners. For example universal childcare is exactly that. Personal allowance isn’t removed. Those kinds of things. That’s because they promote success. They know they need the higher earners paying good levels of tax. They don’t disincentivise it. Here? Waaaaah, why should those filthy rich earners get anything. Tax them moaaaare and give it to me. Selfish fuckers, etc, etc.

We are a lazy nation hell bent on destroying itself. We hate people who do well; this harms productivity and it means that we are haemorrhaging skilled workers to less hostile countries.

Look at how teachers are treated in this country? Generally hated by the population - yet in other countries they are highly respected. VAT is a dog whistle to a financially illiterate country which has never valued education. This won’t bring teachers back. They are treated like shit by children and parents who don’t value education at all.

Other countries focus the mind a bit more because benefits reflect how much you’ve contributed and are limited. With a majority of state dependents - it needs looking at.

This whole UC debate arose because I said it frustrated me that a friend and her DH don't work but live on UC. She is a qualified radiographer but says that she wants to be a SAHM. Sometimes people just don't want to work. Sometimes - I'm not saying that's always the case but when it is the case then that is a problem.

Financially and politically illiterate. Which is why simpleton dog whistle policies which raise little to no money have the effect they do. I’m fully expecting reform to get in once Labour has finished its shambolic reign. In Finland there is a huge focus on retraining people, rather than government handouts. The former mobilises and upskills those struggling, rather than encouraging a lack of ambition.

education is a political football in this country and politicians make up education policies on a whim, usually without consulting actual teachers.

teachers in other countries are better paid, and the jobs are more sought after, people do indeed respect them more.

So your friend should have a choice to claim UC and stay home, but educational choices removed from the poorest PS parents, who do work full time, is ok? I just don’t follow this thinking at all. Everyone should pay more tax and UC should be reformed and removed from anyone ‘choosing not to work’.

You're not reading my posts are you? I actually agree with you that it's not ok and choosing not to work, especially when you have a skill set, is disgusting. Stop being so defensive and realise when people actually agree with you.

What a staggeringly ignorant comment about UC.

Incredibly lacking in any awareness of disability.

@mugboat as if to underline your hypocrisy further - you’ve had my comment removed. Surely the left doesn’t want to compromise others freedom of speech?

It's what Labour do, they delete commentary that oppose them or their narrative. Bridget Phillipson is particularly guilty of this and the press reported on it. They can't stand criticism.

It was relating to skilled people choosing not to work, not those who cannot.

It was relating to skilled workers choosing to stay home and be eligible for UC. Not those who cannot work. Read the thread and its context.

I do know someone personally who was careful never to earn too much but to clock 16 hours a week so she could have universal credit.

She was very intelligent and a good mother. She understood the system and incentives and responded to them rationally.

We have probably set the bar too low. Of course setting the bar higher only works when you increase minimum wage, provide free or very subsidised childcare and after school care. But of course, you can afford these things if more people are working more hours.

Virtuous circle.

Yes, it’s why debates around these subjects have become so polarised. Labour voters on here seem fond of removing or compromising others freedom of speech. Which is a highly odd stance for any left wing voter. Sadly what is a highlighted again and again is many mid to low incomes don’t pay their fair share of tax and they don’t want it debated as they know this wreaks of hypocrisy. Imagine shrieking ‘pay the VAT’ in someone’s face - all the while not making adequate contributions for your own family.

the comment that was deleted went against MN's terms and conditions. Plenty of people disagree with me here and have not had comments removed.

Imagine shrieking ‘pay the VAT’ in someone’s face

Labour are promoting this. Look at Phillipson’s posts. They are an embarrassment

You could call it a tax break of sorts? Under contributing and having families are precisely what creates the public services issues we have.

Of course they are, inspiring the unintelligent and unpolitical to run to their dog whistle. Obviously the proof will be in the pudding, imagine disrupting the educations of thousands of children whose parents are high tax payers, only for state schools to remain in the position they are. What an embarrassment they are, as well as anyone feeble minded enough to buy this bullshit.