Doubts grow over Labour’s VAT plan for private schools

[Blanketyre]

Article in the Observer here:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/doubts-grow-over-labours-vat-plan-for-private-schools

I must say they've gone very quiet on it.

That’s ok, anyone watching the thread could see your hypocrisy for what it is. One sided envy, based on other people having what you cannot afford.

I'd be impressed if you read all of my posts in this thread. I doubt you have. I am not envious at all, why would I be? If you have read my other posts, you will see that I have nothing to be envious of at all.

Nothing I have said is hypocritical either. Seems like you are making assumptions about me based on what you think a left winger is like.

Perhaps you need to sit down and have nice cup of tea, and, perhaps, log out of MN for a bit.

I have to say @80smonster you haven't covered yourself in glory here. You've made a couple of scathing attacks on me simply because you're not properly reading what I've said. Eg "what contribution will you and your UC friend be making" when it was clear that I'm a 45% tax payer with 2 DC at private school.

And whilst I sympathise with whst you say about people who aren't prepared to work (and nobody could be more irritated about that than me) I also think you're wrong to lump lower earners in that category for not paying enough tax. Just remember the contribution from nurses and paramedics, or people who serve you in shops/restaurants, or the teachers teaching your DC - we can't all be higher earners and that's what our taxes should be used for.

Sorry I missed your earlier posts. I wasn’t lumping low and mid tax payers together, I said Scandi countries tax both more, so that hard work receives fairer taxation. If we use services we should pay for them. I’m not a fan of UC, I do not believe it has the positive desired outcome. We all want a more educated and happier society - and we all need to pay and work for this (if we are able). It is our moral obligation as a society as a whole to do that. Tax on education is a tax on intelligence and aspiration, for that reason I think it is very wrong and shouldn’t apply to education of any typology.

Why else would you want the education of other children disrupted? This policy, if you could call it that, one which teachers unions and think tanks largely disagree with, is out of line with the rest of the world. It’s incredibly small minded to want to inhibit education of any sort, I’m amazed that others cannot see it for what it is. Put simply I believe it’s a brain drain, as was Brexit, a loud tribal bellow that will do little to improve the UK’s lot.

Thank you for putting so much more eloquently than I have. Agree with every word you’ve said.

Off VAT topic, but further to pp’s comment about her friend working 16 hours and being a excellent mother… while I completely despair of those otherwise able and skilled people who are choosing not to work and are claiming UC instead, I do feel very strongly that a big problem in our society is that we can no longer afford to have one parent at home running the household and being there for their young children. Being able to be a SAHM/D is a privilege nowadays when really I think it should be a fundamental.

I totally agree. Average families should be able to have a choice in this.

I find which ever government it is, they pick a topic to divide people and let it run. This one is the worst they have come up with as it involves children and could lead to harasment. With spiteful tweets from MPs it's not helping, they need to clean it up and move on.

This one is the worst they have come up with as it involves children and could lead to harasment. With spiteful tweets from MPs it's not helping

I agree with you on this. Someone in power should not be making decisions on education with those views

They should scrap it and move on.

I was thinking about this and I wonder if part of the problem is the fact thst they've linked the VAT to the funding of state schools - if they'd just said, were putting VAT on school fees, and not said it was to fund state schools, maybe there wouldn't be so much resentment. But by linking the two it's basically creating a massive load of resentment.

That has nothing to do with it. The problem is that taxing education goes against every precedent for the purpose of education. It is also being fought against because it comes from a spiteful place rather than a genuine attempt to improve state schools. That the Sec of State for Ed can send out spiteful tweets on X, sums it up.
They have now been warned/advised by accountancy firms, teaching unions, head teachers etc to either pause or suspend yet they push ahead. There are 2 legal challenges and another one in the pipeline.
It is so strange that they are choosing this as their hill to die on. They can u-turn on nom doms, pension tax and investment tax but not this one even though the weight of evidence against it is greater.

There is a new update here, debate in parliament tomorrow.
https://www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools/u/32944568

If your child attends private school then when the VAT kicks in they will be legally clawing back on vatable purchases. For them to continue to milk the parents at 20% a year they're either inept which I don't believe or dishonest.

You're probably right actually - I just wondered if I'd feel less pissed off if it wasn't being framed so divisively in terms of paying for education we don't use when other wealthy people do use it and don't pay for it! But as you say, tax on education is just wrong.

Many schools have little input VAT to reclaim because the vast majority of their expenditure is staff costs. There will also be business rates for schools to pay, which isn’t a small amount. This is in addition to the VAT. Most schools are not increasing fees by the full 20%. Finance departments have been working for months on ways to mitigate the ridiculous tax.

I'm confused is it only in Wales that education comes out of council tax. Does English education funding come out of Westminster?

The problem with the ‘fuck the rich, make them
pay up more and more and more’ is that the rich with the means will simply shrug and say ‘okay then’, and leave, taking their money and their companies with them. They are already doing so at one of the highest rates in the world at either number 2 or 3 behind China. They will also cease to be attracted to the UK as a viable option for investment. Middle earners in turn will also lose incentive to do better, and will instead keep themselves below the level where they’ll be hit hardest. It isn’t sustainable.

Despite the ‘off you fuck then!’ bravado that’s routinely trotted out in response to this point being raised, this is the exact opposite of what the UK wants and needs (although tbh I think the ideologues would gladly see it all collapse for everyone rather than be even slightly pragmatic and compromise ). Hence Labour backing off their plans about non doms and closing the private equity loophole - both of which would see the UK losing money.

@Didimum ‘You’ll find many, many very non envious backers of this policy.’

Where?

Depends where you're looking – can you tell me? I've personally not encountered any of the envious variety. Do they exist? Sure. Are they what the policy is built on? No.

Are they what the policy is built on? No.

It absolutely is what the policy is built on, as evidenced by the spiteful, petty post from Phillipson on Saturday evening. It has got nothing to do with raising money (the IFS have said the tiny amount of money won’t fund public services). The Labour Party have previously voted to abolish private schools entirely. They absolutely hate the private sector.

? You said ‘You’ll find many, many very non envious backers of this policy.’

I asked where?

We all know about today’s Labour party’s desperate incompetent envious nature.. That being the case, I was still surprised to see them putting it on embarrassing full show. Let’s see it again.

In all towns, cities and villages across the UK. In high earners that deliberately choose state education. In private school parents who believe the addition of VAT is fair. In those who believe in socialist structures. In those who believe in a deliberately levelled playing field in education for all.

I am not envious at all, why would I be?

Mugboat maybe you’re not but why then sarcastic comments such as ‘Sooooo glad you had a marvellous time. I don't think it's for me’ ?