To be fed of of vile comments re disability and pip- so come on those people suggest a job for me.

[Laughydodo]

Named changes for this

Fed up of the vile comments about disability including on mumsnet.
(I know it’s a minority on here). Especially against those who claim PIP.

Fed up of feeling like a second class citizen because I claim benefits.

Fed up of people saying my mental health will improve if I am at work.

Fed up of disability top trumps with people saying things like- I have this , this and this disability and I manage to work.

Fed up that some people seem be hoping that Pip is abolished and then people like us will have to find another way to support ourselves. Also so fearful of this happening.

I clung onto work for years with having epilepsy and fibromyalgia. Fighting to stay in while employers were trying everything to get rid of me. I would be let go from one job on health grounds only to start the process again and it end the same way.

I now claim pip and esa as i have up to 20 seizures a week. Half of which I lose my memory and speech (I don’t even recognise my husband at times) and are totally wiped out for half a day at least . Would love some of the smug arseholes that’s seem to think everyone can work find someone who is willing to employ me. Oh and I piss myself as well and lose control of my bowels with many of my seizures. This is without the pain of fibro coming into it all.

So come on then these people on here who think all disabled people should work- suggest all the jobs that I can do that will benefit my mental health so I won’t be a burden on the state. Would you honestly be happy to employ me?

Sorry but the self righteous comments from people who dont have a clue is really starting to boil my piss. Oh and one day it might happen to them. I was 22 when I developed epilepsy, 30 when I got fibro after having glandular fever. I would not wish this one anyone obviously but people seem to forget that disability can happen at any time.

So waiting for the jobs suggestions to begin and the list of employers that would employ me-

Yep.

That said I don’t think that’s a reason not to raise it again. I also wonder if it’s time to look beyond MN re raising how bad the platform is now. Are there any regulation bodies, should people paying for advertising be made aware….

OP I’d like to start by saying that I completely understand your distress and anger and it’s absolutely right that you have PIP.

I think that the whole assessment process is bizarre. I knew someone, sadly he’s recently died, who could barely walk and had breathing problems. He had every benefit he applied for. What the assessors never picked up on was that he was an absolute genius with IT and could easily have worked on that from home.

Denying it happens doesn't help, it absolutely does and that's why some people have the doubtful attitude towards genuinely disabled people. I was explaining why some people hold those views, not stating that those views were fact or correct. 'People like me' have close family members receiving PIP so I understand how difficult it is.

PiP is for the extra costs if living if disabled and not to do with whether you can work.

I don't think many people do know anyone who plays the system. The just read stuff online that is probably being made up. If anyone was playing the system why would they be open about it and risk loosing it.

Where have I denied it is happening? There are fraudsters in every financial system. But the PIP fraud rate is very low and to suggest it is not is simply wrong.

I doubt you know the first thing about PIP tbh, as you don't even understand that it has nothing to do with ability to work.

Whether he could work from home or not would have no bearing on his PIP claim, so that would be why the assessors did not pick up on it.

Maybe he could not work, even from home, due to his conditions. Who knows? Either way his ability to work, or not would have nothing to do with his PIP. Many people claim PIP and work.

Also I am sitting here thinking about having no idea of whether any people I know are fraudulently claiming PIP. I apparently must know some people though, apparently we all do!

I agree. I'm surprised that the DWP haven't suggested that if you're well enough to get through the process, you're well enough to work.

I was at a tribunal yesterday. My client was in such a state that she was in tears in the waiting room, struggling not to cry in the hearing, and in tears afterwards. Then, when we got told we'd won, she totally broke down. It was nothing to do with the panel members, who'd all been absolutely lovely, but the process.

The whole process had taken nearly 2 years, it's little short of criminal what they put people through. And the assessor's report was utter bollocks and read as though it had been through some sort of pisspoor translation software.

It's beyond bollocks.

@Blu3S1st3r I reported one of the more obviously invented posts about PIP claimants merrily spouting freely about fraud etc. This is the reply I got:

"We're not in a position to decide if something is true since Mumsnet is an anonymous site and we're unable to fact-check every post. We think it's reasonable to say that benefit fraud exists and so we wouldn't remove on that basis. We encourage posters to challenge anything they believe is incorrect."

So, MNHQ's position is clear. They don't care that the platform is being used to spread hate for disabled people.

No surprise.

I am not surprised whatsoever with that poor response from MNHQ. They really do not care about a lot of things, I am sad to see.

I'd love to know how they do it, as around 50% of my team's applications are refused. The vast majority of those then go to appeal, and the team's success rate at appeal is over 99% (one person lost one, once).

I know this is pretty standard for other projects like ours, where the applicant's primary presenting condition is a mental health one. It's not as though we're spectacularly bad at what we do, more that the system doesn't meet the needs of those with disabling mental health conditions.

I'd be interested to see the source for your contention that there are "an awful lot of people" falsely claiming, @Candaceowens .

But she would need consultant letters to back that which means she would have to have medical evidence of why. I don't doubt benefit fraud with other benefits but the fraud rate for pip is 0.4% due to the amount of medical evidence needed

No, @Diomi, a lot of people are wrongly turned down for PIP, which is why the success rate for PIP appeals is 70%.

I suspect that the success rate when people are represented by welfare rights advisers is considerably higher. My team can't be the only one with a success rate of virtually 100%. The PIP regulations are complex and the average layperson appealing is unlikely to know them inside out, and there's a huge body of case law for PIP which is constantly growing.

I don't think it's a coincidence that PIP was introduced at the same time that Legal Services Commission funding for welfare rights work was abolished. The Cameron govt made the system more complex and harder to navigate while making it harder for people to get help in navigating it.

But these people don't exist everyone who gets pip does need it or they wouldn't get it. If you had ever been through the pip process you would understand this

You have anxiety or an anxiety disorder there is a difference. Are you under secondary care for this? How many attempts have you had to take your life? Has your anxiety lead to agoraphobia? How many panic attacks do you have a day? What medication has your psychiatrist prescribed? Have you ever been or currently in a psychiatric unit ?
These are the sort of things that need answering and proof of for pip. Going to see your gp and told yeah its anxiety isn't going to be enough to get pip

But there is a world of difference between these and someone claiming they can’t work just because of anxiety. And I have had anxiety so I know what it’s like.

If you have 'had anxiety' @Errors, then surely you must understand that it's different for everyone. My 12yo has OCD, which is an anxiety disorder. His life has shrunk to the size of his bedroom. He can't go to school. He spends over 2 hours in the shower decontaminating after leaving the house. He changes his socks if he accidentally walks on a piece of paper, a hair, a ball of fluff. I could fill a volume with the things that cause him anxiety. Do you think any of that qualifies him for PIP, or at his age, DLA? Or not? I mean, he's bright and chatty and full of fun. Should that take priority, even though it's only true when he's in his safe space, wearing his safe clothes, eating his safe food? Do you actually know how bad anxiety can get?

I would have stuck with the "often", @Nospringchix . And "not accurate" is a very diplomatic way of putting it.

I've known them say that the client attended the assessment alone, when they were accompanied by their mum, that they appeared clean and well dressed when they were wearing the same manky hoody and ancient stained t-shirt as they always did and that they showed no observable signs of distress when they had broken down in tears and had to ask for a break.

One client was assessed at a home visit, because she couldn't travel from her home to the assessment centre. She remained on her bed, which was in the sitting room, because she couldn't get up stairs. The assessor's report said that she had no problems with stairs and could get up the steps to her house.

Except there weren't any steps. The two shallow steps in the front path had been replaced by a ramp, a photo of which was included with the appeal application, together with the council's letter notifying her of the date on which they would be doing the work. The DWP stuck to their decision at mandatory reconsideration, despite having a copy of the photo, but capitulated the day before the appeal, over a year later. They put this poor woman through nearly 2 years of unnecessary poverty and stress and knew the report was false for most of that time.

And they know they're doing it. If they genuinely believed they were in the right, the DWP would send someone to appeals to argue their case, but they rarely do. The only time I've seen a DWP rep at a tribunal was for an overpayment appeal,. He requested an adjournment very early on, went through my figures, agreed that their sums were wrong, went back in and conceded!

This is awful! It’s disgraceful that disabled people are being treated like this. I would say though that my DH has MS & has been on ESA and DLA then PIP for many years. He has never had a face to face assessment or anything like that. He provides the details of his GP, consultant & MS nurse and a list of medication. He was on lower rate for both elements for the first few years and then was awarded enhanced mobility and eventually enhanced care.

For us the worst aspect has been how upsetting facing up to how much he has declined when you see it written down in black and white as you complete the forms. It is generally me who completes the forms but we have had help in the past from his OT. Is this a possibility for you? If you have a Welfare Rights Officer in your local Social Work dept they can be a good support in the process.
I hate the thought that people who should be receiving support are being put off by the application process which may not be as hard as they think. You tend to hear of the worst stories, these are the ones that make the news or social media but many other people claim with no issues.

We don’t apply for a long time. I read too much in the media. Then it kept being brought up in meetings. Finally somebody from the NHS sat me down and went though it with me. Kicking myself now.

I just don't believe these stories that PPs happen to know someone's aunty's cousin's grandad's friend who claims PIP but is perfectly capable of leaping out of bed when their grandson wins a golden ticket.

It's much more likely they are either making it up entirely or they saw someone disabled living their life for five minutes and then extrapolated from that that they're clearly completely fine.

For those of us with invisible disabilities (yes, it's physical for people who think only that counts), it only makes us even more fearful than we won't be believed. No, you might not notice that there's anything wrong with me if you only spent five minutes with me. That does not mean I'm fine.

For anyone who thinks that the system isn't stacked against applicants, I'd like to recommend the book "The Department" by John Pring, who runs the Disability News Service. It's a very readable potted history of how it's got harder and harder for those with disabilities to get the money that they need to survive.

And to see how only certain activities are relevant and how significant the challenges faced have to be to get PIP, take a look at the criteria that people are assessed against here: PIP descriptors . The threshold for an award is 8 points for both daily living and mobility activities.