To think whatever your social class, if you’ve got immature parents, the odds are stacked against you

[ThelmaKare]

Inspired by the thread that middle class children are more confident - I had a firmly muddle class upbringing - two university educated parents (Oxbridge) who both had top professional jobs.

However, if something wasn’t quite to her liking my mum couldn’t act like an adult. She had tantrums. meltdowns, also had a short stay in a psychiatric hospital.

As soon as she got home she headed straight for the drinks cabinet and was plastered through all my main school exams. My Dsd failed to confront her and just normalised her drunken antics - looked on indulgently and swept them under the carpet. My mum was at times violent towards me.

i had low self esteem - I was fat, miserable, aggressive svd violent in school and swore at the teachers. I was also severely bullied and humiliated. I got into sexual activity early. I massively underachieved at school and had no real friends.

After one of my mum’s violent episodes she’d often be remorseful next day and seek to explain her behaviour away using some lame reason.

My parents both very high achievers but terrible on a personal /emotional level.

Looking back also, my parents had no real, genuine friends.

So AIBU in thinking it’s not social class so but maturity of parents that’s important to a child’s confidence?

I disagree. You’d be amazed by the safeguarding issues in middle class homes. These problems are not unique to certain socio-economic groups. Society just stereotypes them as not middle class problems.

Yes OP, you’re right. I’m sorry you went through that.

It does sound like your mum had real mental health problems rather than simple immaturity, but you’re right that those experiences probably shaped your upbringing and had consequences.

Do you think working class people are less interested in their child’s education and wellbeing?
And middle class children don’t experience neglect? Middle class parents can’t have mental health problems?

This resonates a lot OP. My dm had mental health issues throughout my childhood including psychiatric care and psychosis. I have memories of being distant and scared by her, I am not sure I ever attached fully to her :( I remember as I got older she was very strict… lots of shouting, screaming and smashing of china. Mouth washed out for saying very mild rude word for example. Very little help with work etc (eldest of 4).. had to parent my younger siblings. Df retreated to his special interests. Think both are ND and DM also has maybe BPD. Only woken up to this fully in my 40s after my sibling took their life. Its so sad as I don’t think they actively wanted to be like this… circumstances and illness and lack of personal reflection got them there :(

apart from having no siblings I can relate so much to this

sorry you lost your sibling in this way ❤️

Another thing with my own mum - although she was financially VERY independent from them and owned her own house 60 miles away from them , my mum still acted like her parents’ little girl. And to be fair to my grandparents- it wasn’t them courting it - it was her whisking me down my grandparents houses every other weekend !

I completely agree with you.

The REAL privilege is being born into a loving, functional family with kind, supportive parents who adore you.

Fair comment, I think, I'm not sure how many fathers knew how to be 'emotionally available'. (My father was born in 1922) I think they were of their time, to some extent when it was seen as perfectly ok for father to disappear behind a newspaper/go and play golf and leave the day to day parenting to mum. Mine was probably slightly on the autism spectrum which made him shy but at that time, who knew?
I'm not making excuses for poor parenting but I suspect many were simply not given or were able to acquire the skills to be good parents.
I am so sorry about OP's mum.

No. I said I don’t think op’s upbringing was middle class as being middle class (imo) is about more than just educational background and income.

I didn’t say other classes don’t care about their children’s education and wellbeing 🙄

I’ve read online that the cause of abuse is ultimately immaturity

I don't know where you read that but I don't think it has any basis in fact. Some abusers are immature, some are not, and alcohol destroys the brain regardless how mature a person is. Neither maturity nor class were the problem in your childhood - poor mental health and substance abuse (predictably) caused you to have an awful childhood, and it is fine to be resentful of that.

All kinds of problems exists in middle class families, as any family.

You wrote middle class families value their child’s education and wellbeing - implying that by not experiencing that, OP didn’t have a middle class upbringing…

Thanks, you’ve got the point.

Thanks and your posts have really enlightened me as to feelings I’ve been having recently about the fact my upbringing wasn’t conventionally middle class despite one parent being doctor and the other being Oxbridge educated director

Firstly - a more ‘conventional’ middle class girl who my mum had pushed me with called me ‘eccentric’ - maybe cos although middle class etc I was badly behaved - often violent- in school - a school this girl’s cousins went to. My ‘friends’ were also the free school meals crowd - although they weren’t genuine friends - but that’s the subject of another thread perhaps!

Also I went to 6th form college in a very working class part of town - wit a different demographic from the state school I went to. The librarian in my working class college had kids who’d been to my middle class school.

I was on friendly terms with the librarian and was honest with her - and said straightforwardly to her one day “to be honest I didn’t like that >middle class state school> really in terms of the demographic that went there .

She looked at me and said

“why? … snobbish?”

that’s the thing - it’s unusual for the average kid of an Oxbridge educated parent to think of state school kids as snobbish

OP it feels a bit like you’re quite angry at “middle class”ness in general, like you were let down by the “promise” or “assumed safety” of middle class, and you found refuge in what you saw as the opposite. You had that meme earlier about “middle class holidays” - seemed quite an extreme response to what is just people going on holiday. It’s like you feel you were sold something, and it let you down. But this is all on your parents, if you’d been in a “working class” family with your same parents it would have been just as bad.

I can see why you feel let down, but I worry that your focus on middle class / working class etc is a complete red herring for your parents behaviour.

@Talipesmum but the OP is doing the exact opposite of what you describe in her first post.

She's saying it's less your social class that determines how you'll do in life, but how stable and supportive your parents are, regardless of class.

I think she's spot on actually.

I'm so sorry you had this upbringing OP.

Terrible things went on back in the day behind the facade of being middle class.

I agree yes, that’s the question being asked, but it feels like there’s a lot of focus still on “class” in OP’s comments - I think my point is I agree with OP that it’s heavily about the parents, but I think maybe OP hasn’t quite let go of the class expectation thing, and just forgetting about that entirely would help. Might be wrong and sorry OP if I’m talking total crap.

Posted too soon.

I lived in a posh area and when I was about 10 we used to play with the children of a very glamorous neighbour who was divorced at the time. I always remember how beautifully dressed they all were.

One day the children just disappeared and it was only because my sister reconnected with the daughter in later life that we found out the mother had moved a girlfriend in who didn't like the children around, so the mother prioritised her relationship and had them put into a children's home until they could be independent!

The daughter went on to have a successful career and family life in the US, but the son unfortunately died in his 40s, from alcoholism complications I think.

Yes no your right - I have got too much of a thing - fetishisation of you will - about class, I admit

definitely!

Yes I agree with everything you say here.

I admit - I love that meme 🤣 - it really does explain so much - generally speaking to ANYONE we don’t like

my parents forced me into a friendship with a very stereotypically middle class girl and she was very snide and bitchy. She insisted we had the ‘same background’ - but we didn’t really - she had a close she brother and a stay at home mum while I was left floundering ! Nothing wrong with working mums though - I found it gave me more freedom if anything !

Thank you to everyone who’s contributed to this thread - you’ve all shared some interesting /opinions and takes on this.

@Mnetcurious has especially touched on something that I’d thought about for several months, perhaps years now - that even though I was the child of top university educated, - professional parents - doctor and director - so on paper my upbringing would appear so middle class it’s practically yelling ‘sun-dried tomatoes!’ - on a day to day level I’ve always felt my upbringing was not so middle class.

The ‘non middle class’ things about my childhood for me would be -

2 full time working parents in executive level responsible jobs so as an only child I just watched UNLIMITED tv - even Benny Hill show- aged 7 - both kids’ and adults’ TV - and I absolutely LOVED this 🤣
The middle class kids in the school I went to had no clue which TV programs I was watching and even aged 7 I’d think to myself “oh hang on - they’re not like me”

Spending a lot of time with my Nanny and her family even though she wasn’t employed by my parents anymore- they were very working class

Mum on her own taking me for weekly package holidays to very working class resorts/destinations - think very much along the lines of Solana Hotel, Benidorm - 🤣
Mum would drink in the room while I’d play with the working class kids from uneducated backgrounds and join in the activities- thing is when I went back to my middle class school I’d find the kids there much too ‘precious’ and unrelatable and would increasingly decline invitations to socialise with them

I’d have violent outbursts in school towards other pupils and swear at the teachers

My mum would unashamedly drink spirits in the house and would get aggressive - on 3 occasions physically

Although my Dad went to Oxbridge he came from a working class uneducated background - his parents had no formal education beyond age 13 - and sometimes this would show in his hobbies namely
football /boxing /soaps. I often thought my Dad was more like my working class Nanny than my mum. I found my Dad more relatable

Having a partner from a working class uneducated background and thinking there was nothing unusual about that