To think whatever your social class, if you’ve got immature parents, the odds are stacked against you

[ThelmaKare]

Inspired by the thread that middle class children are more confident - I had a firmly muddle class upbringing - two university educated parents (Oxbridge) who both had top professional jobs.

However, if something wasn’t quite to her liking my mum couldn’t act like an adult. She had tantrums. meltdowns, also had a short stay in a psychiatric hospital.

As soon as she got home she headed straight for the drinks cabinet and was plastered through all my main school exams. My Dsd failed to confront her and just normalised her drunken antics - looked on indulgently and swept them under the carpet. My mum was at times violent towards me.

i had low self esteem - I was fat, miserable, aggressive svd violent in school and swore at the teachers. I was also severely bullied and humiliated. I got into sexual activity early. I massively underachieved at school and had no real friends.

After one of my mum’s violent episodes she’d often be remorseful next day and seek to explain her behaviour away using some lame reason.

My parents both very high achievers but terrible on a personal /emotional level.

Looking back also, my parents had no real, genuine friends.

So AIBU in thinking it’s not social class so but maturity of parents that’s important to a child’s confidence?

Sorry to meander off point : whenever I watch TV shows from the 70s, I m shocked at societal behaviour in general. I saw a few episodes of "Auf vedersein (spelling?) pet", a year or so ago. The accepted alcohol abuse, mysogyny, dysfunction, poverty. What was normalised back then, is unacceptable now.

Our parents were (the fucked up) products of their era. They had their struggles too. It s healthier for me, to try to understand them, not blame them.

I grew up in an ‘immature’ household with alcohol, some violence and just general dysfunction.

You have to work very very hard to not bring this into your own home and you also have to work very hard to try and put yourself in a position where you are making thought through decisions yourself.

It’s not easy and I really see the advantages my friends had vis a vis security and confidence.

However the resilience I built up meant that I was far better equipped to deal with the slings and arrows life deals you.

@CreationNat1on
The desire for the party really resonates. I sometimes struggle that I am not supplying my DCs those crazy Christmas etc memories but then I remember dragging my drunken mother up the stairs and I re think !

I think addiction, bad parenting is just as rife in upper mc as other classes tbh.

I also think it’s pretty rare for a family to not have some form of dysfunction.

Yes addiction is rife in upper classes, because they have more money to support it. More money for nannies and outside help to counterbalance the negatives of addiction.

This

From.what I've seen in my own circle and professional life middle class parents are just as bad, abusive or prone to mental health or addiction issues as any other class. They just are more adept to hiding it.

By the way - I was privately educated in a bottom rung private school (not many in my locality, at any rate). The kids with the more "working class vibe", did equally as well or better in life in general. The wealthier/snobbier student's dreams of being artists or poets or models was blindly supported (regardless of talent or commitment).

The students from grittier backgrounds had a more practical approach to life and a far greater work ethic (and maybe something to prove).

Many of the daughters of CFOs/local accountants are struggling financially now and never became fully independent of their parents.

However the more working class kids, had more siblings, and less inheritance. The wealthier, snobbier kids had more inheritance coming their way, which perhaps impacted on their life ambitions and work ethic.

The ones who are really struggling are the children brought upto consider themselves upper middle class with focus on the arts and theatre, but no money or assets to set them up in life.

I think growing up in a stable, loving and supportive home environment is a massive asset and unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't have that, irrespective of family income/professions.

Inadequate parents cross all social and class divides. You might have professional, high-flying jobs and a new SUV every couple of years, you might be privately educated and access top-sports clubs and expensive extra-curricular activities. You might rub shoulders with the well-connected and influential people you need to achieve professionally later on in life. You may have multiple holiday homes.

None of this means anything if genuine parental concern and affection isn't there. The absence of this is what damages children and forms angry, upset adults.

I also think confidence comes in different forms and some is innate. I have friends who are very confident work wise and have set up great businesses but many have that confidence from having a safety net in case of failure.
Despite some adversity growing up I’m very confident in who I am as a person, never swayed by peer pressure etc but I’m risk adverse because I like security.

OP - I think you mentioned something about weight in one of your posts.

In my mother's working class family of origin, bring thin was one of the few achievements most of her siblings had, that other people didn't have. They were thin due to poverty. They were proudly thin, I would say some of them were/are anorexic. The thiness was a benefit and they held onto it, and sneered at overweight people.

Anorexic people can be very, very judgemental of other people's weight.

You and I were the era of the latch-key kids. TV as nannies, and convenience good available in the press. Of course we were larger kids, than the generation before us. But the judgment of what was the previous generation's body standards, was unfair in the circumstances.

OP: they were a very traumatised generation themselves, particularly the women. We need to love and value our selves to heal from their u healthy coping strategies.

Yes.
Whatever class, I blame my absent, lazy, uneducated and emotionally abusive parents for the psychological damage I have to live with.
That said, I haven't done bad, moved away to another country as soon as practical.
YANBU.

That all sounds terrible. But I suppose the point is that a poorer child could well be dealing with that exact same dynamic but on top of not having enough to eat, unhealthy food, crowded/mouldy housing, living on a sink estate with drugs and gangs etc.

I saw an interesting tiktok yesterday about this.

It was a woman talking about how she saw her social services file as an adult and was described as a 'vulnerable' child. She was removed from her parents as a small child I think.

She said for her, it helped to reframe the 'vulnerable' as 'under served'. She, and you, were under served by your parents - her in basic things like providing a safe place to live and nourishing food; you in possibly less tangible ways like being supported through even just normal parts of childhood, and putting that support ahead of their need to drink etc.

But whatever the case, I agree with you - however I don't think you can look at the causes in isolation; working class - potentially not as educated - more likely to live in poverty etc. all have their own influences.

Auf Wurdersehen Pet was 1983 - 86

bit you’ve just mentioned my VERY FAV TV program from the best era of TV

The 2000s Auf Wiedersehen didn’t count and yes I will die on this hill!

I read my med records and I learned in my 30s I was a ‘special’ baby who’d been kept in in hospital for bout a month after I was born

my mother completely unapologetically said she’d smoked throughout her pregnancy and never attempted to give up

Thank you, this is exactly what I meant - being middle class is not just about educational background and profession - it’s also behaviours, beliefs and lifestyle.

In contrast to your experience I grew up in a household without much material wealth - although my parents came from fairly middle class backgrounds themselves and had a good education they chose lower-paid vocational jobs to make a difference in the world (think teacher, social worker, vicar, nurse etc). However we definitely had a middle class upbringing in my view - weekend trips to country parks etc (just an example before anyone jumps on this!), music lessons (subsidised in those days as low income), focus on working hard/ doing well at school and lots of emotional support.

Yes I completely agree with this

i lived in a safe area no gangs etc - so could walk to the shops unmolested !

So did mine and smoked and still does even though all her DC were hospitalised with asthma. She then went on to do a ‘poor me’ about how hard the hospital runs were.

The immaturity and selfishness of this still astounds me to this day

Yeah it's a definite disadvantage. My parents had a hideous divorce, my mum remarried a control freak who didn't want two stepchildren and reluctantly accepted as us part of the package but refused to let us see our dad, while also expecting him to pay for us. He didn't pay for us. It was a huge mess and they all behaved like idiots, then my mum and SD kicked me out as soon as I turned 18. I didn't have any means of supporting myself or any help from them but have managed to do OK in life through luck, grit and what I would also describe as 'middle class privilege' (I look and sound a certain way). My upbringing was pretty tough though, despite my parents all being in high earning jobs. I also have ADHD and ended up with issues around drink/substance abuse/low self-esteem/debt in my 20s, although managed to pull myself back together (again, with no help from anyone else).

I would still describe myself as 'privileged' even though it's obviously a lot more nuanced than that.

Yes. Hard agree OP.

I think there are two separate things. On the one hand parenting was different: it was normal to be a latch key kid, play out all day, parents take no interest in homework and so on. None of that (imo) is a major problem if you have parents who are able to care about the children more than (or even as much as) they care about themselves.

My parents were very uninvolved in a practical sense, but they were also emotionally unavailable and selfish and that was much more of a problem.

Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) occur across the social classes and different demographics. They are potentially traumatic experiences which occur in our childhood such as a parent misusing substances or serious mental health problems. There's lots of interesting reading online about this topic.

Obviously a childhood is impacted by a number of factors. Being middle class or in a home with a decent amount of disposable income or having career-orientated, well-connected or intelligent parents opens up a lot of opportunities to children.

Having a mentally unwell parent is going to negatively impact on a child, but these are two separate factors.

I grew up in a working class home with a mentally unwell mother. It was hard. If I were to go back in time and either choose for my parents to be wealthier/middle class or for my mother to be mentally stable - then I would opt for the latter. It doesn't mean that there aren't benefits to the former.

absolutely!

my mum was more concerned with what others would say than my welfare if there was a problem