We will dance again

[namechange11112222]

I have just watched this documentary and it broke my heart.
Hamas are revolting monsters, I can't call them animals because animals wouldn't even do that.

I do wonder how the younger, very outspoken generation would:

1. Feel if that was a festival they went to and watched their friends get slaughtered
2. Have said if there were social media at the time of WW2

Would we have been viewed in the same way Israel has been? The causalities of war were far greater.

I do not support the way in which Benjamin Netanyahu is going about this war at all but I 100% agree with Israel's right to defend itself.

They seem to be the only war I can think of where a country being attacked from all sides, from countries who do want mass extermination of Jewish people (do the younger generation still get taught about the holocaust anymore) who are repeatedly being told to stand down by the west.

To remind the younger generation of previous war casualties (for anyone with the argument that this war is completely out of proportion):

WW1

• UK - 885,000 deaths
• Germany - over 2 million deaths

WW2 - is this proportionate?

• 1.5 - 3 million deaths in Germany
• 210,000 dead - Nuclear bombs into Japan

• 70,000 innocent dead - England

Iraq War

• 179 English soldiers
• 4,492 US soldiers
• 186 - 210,000 Iraqi civilians

No civilian should ever be harmed in war, it is evil however it is inevitable.
How many Jewish people should be killed for Israel to be supported in defending themselves.
So the "the death toll is completely out of proportion" argument doesn't stand.

Yes, we can go back to the time before the bible and argue who has the right to the land. But this current war was started by Hamas and Hezbollah the following day.

However, please don't try to say they want mass extermination of Jewish people just because of the land.
People spitting on a naked woman's dead body when brought back into Gaza, footage filmed by Hamas.

Lets call this what it is pure racism, just like the Nazi's, who killed 6 million Jewish people.

Lets call this what it is pure racism, just like the Nazi's, who killed 6 million Jewish people.

Let's call it what it is - Jew hatred.

Most countries of the rest of the Middle East does not want Israel to exist because they hate Jews.

And the casual anti-Semitism I hear from even the nicest people I know & teach from the Arabic/Islamic ME shocks me daily.

They don't "hate Jews" they just hate their children being killed by Israelis.

You know this for a fact, do you? Hamas teach Palestinian children to hate Jews.

Completely agree.

Shameful.

@LetThereBeLove it's not victim blaming to question the location of a music festival. I'm aware that lots of Israeli's that live on the border are proponents of peace. Unfortunately there is also a long and well documented history of Israeli snipers shooting people as they go about their business near that border, including children.
That's been normalised. And that's not ok. Nor in my view is holding a music festival pretty much on that border.
What happened at that music festival was unspeakable and unthinkable. And should not have happened and was not the fault of the people attending or organising it. It was the fault of the disgusting Hamas 'operatives' involved.
But the location is in my view symptomatic of the normalisation of the fact that Gaza has effectively been a prison for those that live there for decades and no one has batted an eye lid to any effect about that for years.

Calling it victim blaming is exactly what I'm talking about. This debate can never be had effectively because people on either side are very quick to shout 'anti Islam', 'anti semitism' 'victim blaming' etc etc

And so the whole mess perpetuates .

@LetThereBeLove

You know this for a fact, do you? Israeli schools teach Israeli children to hate Palestinians.

Corrected this for you. HTH.

If you missed it

They don't "hate Jews" they just hate their children being killed by Israelis.

So explain the anti-semitism in other Middle Eastern countries then.

Its a nonsense. Remember that antisemites project their worse beliefs and behaviours onto the Jews. Every accusation is a confession.

While Gaza was still experiencing significant poverty and restrictions, applied by both Israel and Egypt, Hamas chose to commit the butchery at a time when Israel had taken steps to channel funds into the Strip and Gazan workers were more about to enter Israel to work than had been possible for a long time. I say this not to diminish the poverty that much of the population were in, but to make two points. First, Hamas demonstrated conclusively that it doesn't care, at all, about Palestinians but used the enclave as a launchpad for War, which validates the concerns that led Israel and Egypt to enforce the blockage. Second, the poverty and normalisation doesn't explain, at all, the sheer glee, delight and brutality of Hamas on that day.

I agree @RedHotWings. I haven't said anything other than any of that. I've said it had become normalised that Gaza was effectively a prison and had been for years. Great that it was getting better. Awful for people that had to live that way for the preceding decades.

I don't think Hamas give a jot for ordinary Palestinians. I also don't think the Israeli leaders do at this point.
I suppose if you are getting bombed or shot at whichever side you are on, you sent that bothered, in the moment who's doing it and why.

Remember that antisemites project their worse beliefs and behaviours onto the Jews. Every accusation is a confession.

Self defense isn't "antisemitism".
How about Israel stops genocide.

How about Hamas and Hezbollah stop trying to kill all Jews - because that is what is in their constitutiuons or manifestoes.

The PLO had as the first statement in their founding document, the destruction of the state of Israel.

Why do they all hate Israel - a democracy which gives Muslims the right of religious freedom, unlike most other ME countries? Could it be , oh maybe just maybe, because Israel was established as a place of sanctuary and safety for Jews?

Oh gosh what a coincidence. But oh no, no Jew hatred to see here.

FFS there are lots of images of young Palestinian children dressed in Palestinian flags carrying guns. This is not a competition of who hates who more. HTHU

FFS have you ever watched how Israeli youth act on Jerusalem day? The pure hate for Arabs that they shout?
That's just one example

This is just propaganda now.

It is a fact not propaganda.

So the written constitutions of Hamas, Hezbollah & the PLO are "propaganda"?

You're probably too young to remember the PLO or "Black September" - try Googling "sky jacking" or the 1972 Munich Olympics.

I can remember wondering which passport it was safe for me to travel on in the 1970s.

Sorry, but no. Absolutely not. This was one of the most targeted attacks in history.
it took out 1 in 30 Hezbollah terrorists.
I have heard many many people in the uk who have praised such a brilliant attack on TERRORISTS.

Yes there were limited civilian deaths, which is never to be condemned, but is an inevitability of war.

They’re damned either way aren’t they? Most people in Lebanon hate Hezbollah and have praised that attack and the strategic killing of the leader of their terrorist organisation.

New research has come out to say that 10% of the younger generation support HAMAS! This makes me feel physically sick. They would be happy for all Jewish people to be killed. Why are these people not in jail.

A couple of more points, I’m not sure if these have been raised yet.

• the death toll is being sent in from Hamas, can we believe everything they say. They are a terrorist organisation
• 500km of tunnels under schools and hospitals, but who are not allowed in - women & children

These monsters couldn’t care less about their people, and that is heartbreaking.

If say, hypothetically Wales harboured a wish for all people in England to be wiped out and killed in the most gruesome way. What would be a proportionate response from our forces?

Exactly! It’s 100% the other way around.
Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of hamas leader grew up being taught to hate Isreal and to fight for their destruction. It’s sickening

The only way the death toll is in question is if whether it is too low.

At the beginning, when most deaths occurred, there were still doctors and journalists verifying the stories emerging from Gaza.

The only reason the numbers can no longer be verified is because journalists were either killed or left because safety wasn't guaranteed... same with doctors. Which suggests that it is Israel who doesn't want the true stories and numbers getting out.

No single journalist or doctor could possibly be capable of accurately calculating a death toll.

Your punt that the Hamas claims are too low is based on nothing at all. We simply do not know. The only people making claims about the civilian death toll are Hamas, and they are liars.