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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to consider regular payments from DP (my kids dad) as child maintenance - even though we're still together?

173 replies

mummatoots · 02/10/2024 06:39

DP and I are still together, but keep separate finances. (He is a financial mess.)

The house we live in is owned (and mortgaged) solely by me.

We have two young children together.

He pays me £500 per month - and with this I pay for everything related to housing, and also clothes, classes, haircuts, etc - anything else the kids need.

He tends to do supermarket shopping as well as this.

Would you class this as effectively child maintenance, albeit in an informal arrangement?

Or, in your view, can you only receive child maintenance if separated?

I ask because I'm looking at moving house, and if I do class this as informal child maintenance (easily evidenced with a few months payments on bank statements,) it is counted within affordability calculations, so helps my application. It's a real payment which I receive regularly from my kids dad towards their living costs, so I'm not making anything up and I think it should count - but I'm not sure if I'm correct in classing it as such, and suddenly have doubts re: mortgage fraud etc!

I've checked the CMS calculator, and if we were to separate and I were to have the kids full time, with his salary I'd be due £532 per month.

Interested in the mumsnet verdict.

OP posts:
notbelieved · 02/10/2024 08:19

it's not child maintenance if you're living together. It is simply a financial arrangement between partners that works for them.

Ivehearditbothways · 02/10/2024 08:20

mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:17

We have totally separate finances.

I checked CMS as I wanted to understand how much I'd be able to claim from his salary if he were to enter into (another!) IVA. As in that instance, he would have to present his reasonable monthly costs / bills and surrender the rest of his salary to his debts.

Show quote history

Why aren’t you understanding that he needs to be contributing more than the minimum CMS amount?
CMS is set at an amount that allows the father to still support himself in HIS OWN HOME. When he lives with you, he needs to be paying towards all the kid’s expenses, the bills, rent. All of its.
He should be paying half of all living costs (or split on the same ratio as your salaries when compared to each other).

Why have you accepted that he pays £500. Who decided that amount?

Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:21

Londonrach1 · 02/10/2024 07:23

No it's not as you live together. Sounds like you planning to leave him though so in that case it would.

I would say we are not in a good place and even if he were able to be on the mortgage, it wouldn't be a sound idea at the moment.

If we were to split, even temporarily, he would still be sending me this amount.

OP posts:
Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:22

namechange8266374 · 02/10/2024 07:43

I'm interested in this idea too as my DH is not on the mortgage and it affects my affordability calculations also- some mortgage companies don't take into account that he pays half of the household bill/childcare. It would be great if we could solve that problem by having him transfer me his half of those costs.

I wonder how common this is - I'd thought others in similar positions must have thought about it at least! Is it something you've considered?

Broker just said that lots of lenders will include informal CM payments as long as there is 3 months bank statements worth of evidence that child's father is paying same amount regularly into mothers account - it doesn't have to be court ordered.

OP posts:
Concentrationneeded · 02/10/2024 08:23

IMO to a mortgage provider it looks like you are loading debts onto your partner and applying for IVAs whilst keeping a clean credit file for you to apply for mortgages ect.

Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:24

Cosyblankets · 02/10/2024 07:50

If he's in a financial mess and stopped paying this 500 a month would you be able to afford the mortgage? What would happen then?
My understanding of your post is that you want to all move to a bigger or more expensive house and I'm guessing he won't qualify for a mortgage or you don't want his name on it.

So what happens if he can't afford the 500?
He's paying you less than what a court would order her paid just for his kids and he's got no rent to pay on top of that.
He's a catch isn't he.

If he stopped paying me the £500 per month I could still afford everything, though with little leeway.

And I'd then claim via CMS.

OP posts:
Lulubo1 · 02/10/2024 08:25

Just playing devil's advocate....if you were to split, you say you'd get £532 a month if you got the kids full time. What if you get 50/50? How much would you get then, and could you afford the mortgage and bills with less than £500? Please bear in mind I have no idea how CMS works, just asking in case the value drops and you take it into consideration. Also, when DH and I got our mortgage, we had to declare if anyone over 18 was living in the mortgaged property that isn't helping with the affordability. Won't you have to declare him?

LogicVoid · 02/10/2024 08:25

It would be fraudulent. Be very cautious; his 'contribution' could be viewed as an investment into the house in the longer term. Take professional advice, and think about formalising and protecting your interests, perhaps with a proper legal agreement.

BlueMum16 · 02/10/2024 08:27

mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:18

I'm not including his salary at all in affordability.

I'd just like to include my salary, plus his £500.

Show quote history

You have to declare he's an adult living in the property as your mortgage company will be interested if he has any sort of claim on the property. It's likely he'll need to sign something.

Seek proper advice.

You are only affording this higher mortgage because he is paying you money. He may have a claim on your property if he leaves. Get legal advice.

And most importantly have a Will to protect your children.

Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:30

Choochoo21 · 02/10/2024 07:58

He pays me £500 per month - and with this I pay for everything related to housing, and also clothes, classes, haircuts, etc - anything else the kids need.
He tends to do supermarket shopping as well as this.

Surely it depends on how much he earns.

If he’s contributing £500 a month in cash and doing the supermarket shops (£100+ a week?), then he’s contributing about £1k+ a month which is quite a lot/the right amount if he’s on minimum wage.

How much do you both earn/contribute?

I think couples should contribute a percentage of their salary.

The percentage should be the same, but the amount may be different depending on the persons income.
E.g. 50%, 80% etc and this should be put into the joint account to pay for ALL joint expenses, including bills and joint children.

You should not get a separate maintenance payment for your kids because they are a joint expense and he should be contributing fairly.

No mortgage lender or landlord is going to take this into account.
They don’t take into account potential maintenance if you split either.

They will take you and your DPs income and outgoings into account and base their opinion on that.

I think you’re either planning to separate from your partner or are trying to be sneaky and try and fool the mortgage lender into thinking you get more than you do/DPs debt won’t be looked at.

But surely you’re going to be better off saying you and your DP have 2 incomes, rather than just yours, regardless of his debt?

FWIW On another thread, there is a similar situation where the OP is not on the mortgage and posters are telling her that it’s not right and her DP is selfish etc but also that she would have a stake in the house if it was sold because although she’s not paying the mortgage, she is contributing in other ways.
It may be worth checking that thread out for unbiased advice.

I'm honestly not trying to fool the mortgage provider into thinking I have more than I do.

I have my own salary, plus £500 per month from my kids dad (DP). Thats all I want them to count.

I would NOT list DP's salary as income. So actually, our household income would be a lot more if we were to apply jointly and use both salaries. (We each earn about £45k).

His credit rating is appalling, and he has significant debt, so I don't want his name anywhere near the house.

I can afford it on my own, so it would be my house, effectively owned as a single person. And as a single person, I'd be entitled to that £500 as CM anyway?

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 02/10/2024 08:30

Speak to independent mortgage advisor. I was in similar situation. I think he can be classed as a dependent and part of his income (wage) included under other sources of finance.

Portalsalways · 02/10/2024 08:32

So the problem you have is that during the process they will ask if any other adults are living there. There’s additional things to do if another adult lives there to do with whether they could claim interest in the house.

So at the point you would either have to lie and say no. Or say yes, your partner, which then may question whether that’s actually CMS. And whether this might end up with him having an interest in the property. So it could end up causing issues further down the line with the mortgage.

Swissvisa · 02/10/2024 08:34

It’s either child maintenance or rental income surely. Your relationship status is irrelevant. It’s a reliable income source that you should declare on your mortgage application. I would have put it under income personally but CMS allow you to claim from a person living with you so maintenance would fine as long as you can demonstrate regular reliable payments (which you can).

Newmum110 · 02/10/2024 08:35

I recently applied for a loan & the lender advised me to include the "maintenance" money. It was the exact same circumstances regarding receipt of the money from DH, it was a regular deposit on my bank statement. I wouldn't have been eligible for the loan without it.

Borninabarn32 · 02/10/2024 08:35

I would say so. Your monthly income into your bank account is including his 500. Yes he could stop paying it, but so could any father.

Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:36

Concentrationneeded · 02/10/2024 08:23

IMO to a mortgage provider it looks like you are loading debts onto your partner and applying for IVAs whilst keeping a clean credit file for you to apply for mortgages ect.

This is a worry really. As it's 100% not the case, and I had no idea he'd racked up this debt.

OP posts:
Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:37

Newmum110 · 02/10/2024 08:35

I recently applied for a loan & the lender advised me to include the "maintenance" money. It was the exact same circumstances regarding receipt of the money from DH, it was a regular deposit on my bank statement. I wouldn't have been eligible for the loan without it.

Thank you. Really helpful.

OP posts:
Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:39

Swissvisa · 02/10/2024 08:34

It’s either child maintenance or rental income surely. Your relationship status is irrelevant. It’s a reliable income source that you should declare on your mortgage application. I would have put it under income personally but CMS allow you to claim from a person living with you so maintenance would fine as long as you can demonstrate regular reliable payments (which you can).

Thanks - income is specifically split into employment, benefits, CM, etc - so CM seemed like the best place to declare it. (I wasn't sure if rental income would need to be declared for tax purposes etc.)

OP posts:
GrumpyOldGran · 02/10/2024 08:41

Oh goodness!

Of course it's NOT CM!

You're together as a couple. It's his contribution to the household pot.

What you're trying to do is count this £500 as 'income' to presumably enhance your income because you're applying for a bigger loan to move house.

This is trying to pull a fast one.

From his point of view, he's currently living with you, not gaining anything from being a joint owner and would be out on his ear if you split up.

If this was reversed and a woman was paying a man £500 a month towards a home/outgoing but had no stake in the home and wasn't a tenant with rights, how do you think this thread would go?

TeaOrCoffeeOrHotChocolate · 02/10/2024 08:42

I think you should be able to include it. Some parents after they have separated live together and one may still pay the other maintenance, so it's not really any different to that is it?

GrumpyOldGran · 02/10/2024 08:42

mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:37

Thank you. Really helpful.

Show quote history

The OP's man is not her husband, Yours is?

Big difference.

Original poster
mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:42

Concentrationneeded · 02/10/2024 08:16

Surely they will check where he lives OP? In my job I can check credit files, electoral register ect for the prevention of fraud.

You're allowed to claim CM from someone who lives with you.

OP posts:
EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness · 02/10/2024 08:44

Flossyflop · 02/10/2024 07:04

It’s not child maintenance if he’s still living with you. In black and white from the gov website.

You said the money he pays you goes towards housing. If he lives there isn’t that his housing?

The government has defined what child maintenance is. This isn't child maintanance, you're not a single parent. Want to lie on your mortgage application go ahead but don't pretend it's anything else. You also legally need to declare his presence.

Portalsalways · 02/10/2024 08:45

Just bear in mind a loan is different to a mortgage.

It some cases the person who doesn’t own the property can make a claim against it in the event of a split. It’s rare and expensive but it can happen. Which is why mortgage lenders will want to know about other adults living there AND paying towards the running costs.

Once you declare him living there, that’s when you might run into issues.

GrumpyOldGran · 02/10/2024 08:46

mummatoots · 02/10/2024 08:39

Thanks - income is specifically split into employment, benefits, CM, etc - so CM seemed like the best place to declare it. (I wasn't sure if rental income would need to be declared for tax purposes etc.)

Show quote history

It is NOT CM.

You're potentially committing fraud.

CM is for parents who do not live together. It's a formal arrangement. Not a sum of money paid by your partner who lives with you.

This is household income he provides but he has no rights as a tenant unless he has a rental agreement which needs to be formal with documentation.

If you go ahead and say it's CM you risk your mortgage being withdrawn.

You're either married and the house is shared as an asset , where he has rights, or he's a lodger, or you live apart and then it's CM.