AIBU to consider regular payments from DP (my kids dad) as child maintenance - even though we're still together?

[mummatoots]

DP and I are still together, but keep separate finances. (He is a financial mess.)

The house we live in is owned (and mortgaged) solely by me.

We have two young children together.

He pays me £500 per month - and with this I pay for everything related to housing, and also clothes, classes, haircuts, etc - anything else the kids need.

He tends to do supermarket shopping as well as this.

Would you class this as effectively child maintenance, albeit in an informal arrangement?

Or, in your view, can you only receive child maintenance if separated?

I ask because I'm looking at moving house, and if I do class this as informal child maintenance (easily evidenced with a few months payments on bank statements,) it is counted within affordability calculations, so helps my application. It's a real payment which I receive regularly from my kids dad towards their living costs, so I'm not making anything up and I think it should count - but I'm not sure if I'm correct in classing it as such, and suddenly have doubts re: mortgage fraud etc!

I've checked the CMS calculator, and if we were to separate and I were to have the kids full time, with his salary I'd be due £532 per month.

Interested in the mumsnet verdict.

It is not child maintenance as it covers his living costs too. It would be fraudulent to declare it as maintenance. I thought on mortgage applications they ask how many adults live in the property? As a PP said, you need to work out what you need from him. More of a contribution or to separate? Your relationship won't survive resentment like this long term.

If you list it as rent from a lodger on the mortgage application that should have the same effect in terms of affordability without the complication of trying to explain maintenance whilst together.

Where is his half of the mortgage? The bills? Why does he contribute so little? What a freeloader.

I'm interested in this idea too as my DH is not on the mortgage and it affects my affordability calculations also- some mortgage companies don't take into account that he pays half of the household bill/childcare. It would be great if we could solve that problem by having him transfer me his half of those costs.

I've checked this, and as long as it can be evidenced by 3-6 months bank statements, informal agreements for child maintenance can be included as long as they are reliable / consistent.

I suppose the difference between this and a pal chucking £500/month into my account is that if we suddenly disagreed about it I could claim it formally as I'd be legally entitled?

Ask the mortgage provider

Edited to add: my instinct, though, is no. With child maintenance the money you receive is pure income as he isn't using any of it himself. But as you are living with your partner his presence is increasing your costs- he is using water/gas/electricity/food etc, his £500 may well simply reflect the additional cost of an extra adult in the household

This ^

If £500 is CM where's his contribution to rent mortgage gas ctax electric etc?

When declaring income on the mortgage application, there's a space for my salary, a space for any income from extra jobs I may have, a space for any benefits income, and a space for child maintenance received. Which it says includes informal arrangements, providing they can be evidenced by payments into my bank account from child's father.

When I include this £500 here, the amount I can borrow goes up, as i can obviously afford a higher mortgage payment with this taken into account.

If he's in a financial mess and stopped paying this 500 a month would you be able to afford the mortgage? What would happen then?
My understanding of your post is that you want to all move to a bigger or more expensive house and I'm guessing he won't qualify for a mortgage or you don't want his name on it.

So what happens if he can't afford the 500?
He's paying you less than what a court would order her paid just for his kids and he's got no rent to pay on top of that.
He's a catch isn't he.

They sure do. I don't know exactly how serious this would be considered to be, but lying on a mortgage application is fraud.
Lying on a mortgage application constitutes fraud, risking criminal charges, fines, and up to 10 years in prison. Other penalties include asset seizure and community service. While pleading guilty might reduce the sentence, providing truthful information is essential to avoid these severe outcomes.
www.onlinemortgageadvisor.co.uk/mortgage-application/lying-on-a-mortgage-application/#what-are-the-penalties-for-lying-on-a-mortgage-application

Agree with the pp that it is more like rent from a lodger than child maintenance.

Best thing is to be open and honest with your mortgage provider and see what they suggest.

Surely he should be paying 'rent' plus Bills plus cms equivalent contribution to his children's costs...
If it was to replicate a separated financial state..

I would talk to you mortgage lender but think even though it's an informal arrangement as such it's not maintenance as you are not separated...but they maybe ok with it or talk to a broker

His name isn't on the mortgage because we weren't together when I bought this house, and when we talked about moving / getting a joint mortgage he confessed he's in a ton of debt and wouldn't get a mortgage approved.

He's previously been in an IVA, and then got clear of it all and then racked up a ton of debt again, which I'm still deciding if I can get over or not - as this was done in secret.

It's definitely not about me controlling him - I love him, but it's clear we have to keep finances separate as I just wouldn't risk the kids home being lost due to his financial recklessness. I have checked the CSA to make sure that if he was to enter into any financial arrangement again I'd still be entitled to receive this money legally, which I would.

He has his entire wage (£40k ish plus decent overtime) to do with what he likes, which is mainly apparently going on various repayments. He gives me £500 per month, plus covers a lot of the food shopping.

I want to move house due to kids schooling.

It will be easier to get a sole mortgage for the amount required if the lenders take into account that I get an additional £500 per month - which I do. (Bearing in mind I also have to declare two infant dependants, which they take into account in terms of living costs.)

He pays me £500 per month - and with this I pay for everything related to housing, and also clothes, classes, haircuts, etc - anything else the kids need.
He tends to do supermarket shopping as well as this.

Surely it depends on how much he earns.

If he’s contributing £500 a month in cash and doing the supermarket shops (£100+ a week?), then he’s contributing about £1k+ a month which is quite a lot/the right amount if he’s on minimum wage.

How much do you both earn/contribute?

I think couples should contribute a percentage of their salary.

The percentage should be the same, but the amount may be different depending on the persons income.
E.g. 50%, 80% etc and this should be put into the joint account to pay for ALL joint expenses, including bills and joint children.

You should not get a separate maintenance payment for your kids because they are a joint expense and he should be contributing fairly.

No mortgage lender or landlord is going to take this into account.
They don’t take into account potential maintenance if you split either.

They will take you and your DPs income and outgoings into account and base their opinion on that.

I think you’re either planning to separate from your partner or are trying to be sneaky and try and fool the mortgage lender into thinking you get more than you do/DPs debt won’t be looked at.

But surely you’re going to be better off saying you and your DP have 2 incomes, rather than just yours, regardless of his debt?

FWIW On another thread, there is a similar situation where the OP is not on the mortgage and posters are telling her that it’s not right and her DP is selfish etc but also that she would have a stake in the house if it was sold because although she’s not paying the mortgage, she is contributing in other ways.
It may be worth checking that thread out for unbiased advice.

Definitely not maintenance if you’re still together and also your lender will need to know if any adults living in the home apart from the borrower.

But do they? I bought my house outright so I’ve never had a mortgage. Do they need to know if you move someone in? Why? I just wouldn’t expect to have to call up the bank to tell them that someone was moving in with me… when it has no bearing on the mortgage. So why would it matter if someone else is living there? Do you have to phone your bank and tell them if you get a lodger?

£40k/year (gross) is about £2500/month (net) and he's only contributing £500 - that's pathetic. I am really struggling to understand why your bar is so ridiculously low that you think this is ok. How can you have any respect for him when he is contributing a measly 20% of his income to the household including his own children?!

Currently you are subsidising him massively - in exchange for what? Sex?

I don't want to raise his payments.

His income isn't counted in my mortgage application, as it's a sole application. It'll be my house, in my name.

He doesn't want to / wouldn't be able to be listed as a joint mortgage applicant, as he's not in the financial position to do that - and our relationship isn't in the best place at the moment due to the financial deceit, so it would be a terrible idea just now anyway.

Without including this £500 amount that I receive from him as CM on a mortgage application, it looks like I'm raising two young kids with just my salary.

This affects "affordability" and lowers the amount of mortgage I'm offered.

But I clearly do get money from my child's father, and don't have to pay for everything myself - and this would be the same / similar amount regardless of whether or not we are together.

So my AIBU really is to list the amount as CM. (That's the only income box it can really go in!)

Why are you staying with a guy who earns a good salary yet refuses to give more than £500 towards living and family expenses because he’d rather run up debt after debt?

Bad choice for a partner.

Make sure your will is watertight so everything is held in trust for your kids and the trust is controlled by someone else. Make sure he cannot get his hands on the money or the house.

Thanks for this, really interesting.

I know the CMS site does say you can be living together and still claim CMS, but it's presumably geared towards couples who've already separated but are still living together while sorting stuff out.

Surely they will check where he lives OP? In my job I can check credit files, electoral register ect for the prevention of fraud.

We have totally separate finances.

I checked CMS as I wanted to understand how much I'd be able to claim from his salary if he were to enter into (another!) IVA. As in that instance, he would have to present his reasonable monthly costs / bills and surrender the rest of his salary to his debts.

I'm not including his salary at all in affordability.

I'd just like to include my salary, plus his £500.

You tell then all your money coming in honestly and they will take it from there, you can really think what you IKR about where money comes from orxwhatvypu think it should be called, it's up to them what actually is what

Sorry about the typing errors