To think incompetent hypocrite Starmer has lost the respect of the people and his own party in record time?

[TealTraybake]

An excoriating letter from Rosie Duffield who resigned today..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rosie-duffield-resignation-letter-starmer-labour-b2620603.html#comments-area

Been bad enough for her to resign, I wonder what will happen next. Does she know something we don’t?

Well I haven’t said any of that? I said my argument is that the UK is incredibly unlikely to go bankrupt. And that there’s not much point comparing us to nations on different continents as proof that we might.

The whole point of voting Labour was to get rid of the freebie/back scratching/sleaze culture

The fact that the Labour Party leadership failed to read that room is appalling in light of them scrapping winter fuel payments

The excuse that "everybody is doing it" and they've been "transparent" about it does not hold water

They should be leading by example, not joining in with the rest of the pigs at the trough

#TeamRosie

Continuing to borrow increasing amounts of money without the ability, or any plans to develop the ability, to repay is just making future generations pick up the tab for our unwillingness to reform. There comes a point at which the government isn’t able to borrow more and more, and does default on its commitments. In addition, the impact on exchange rates (sterling gets weaker) is that imports get more expensive and inflation rises. We are a net importer. Our exports get more competitive of course, but if the country is on its knees then people’s willingness to do business with uk businesses also falls.

In ‘76 in return for the bailout the Labour government was forced to make cuts to public sector spending anyway! The economy didn’t start to grow until thatchers reforms worked their way through, and paved the way for the longest period of economic growth since the 19th century.

A robust welfare state means we all have to pay more taxes - that’s why the average person on an average salary in Scandinavia, France or whichever country you choose with what we might call good public services, pays more tax as a proportion of their income than an average person on an average salary in this country. It’s futile to think that taxing the ‘rich’ will solve the problem.

I mean I’m no economist but I do understand the basics.
Yes, if the UK looked in danger of going bankrupt or we had no plan other than to continually borrow, I would expect conditions to be put in place in the event that we needed to be bailed out. But that’s never been my point. My point is that we are almost certainly not about to go bankrupt and that our economic woes aren’t caused by, as whoever the pp was (I’ve lost track) stated “the get everything free brigade@.
I imagine that there’s every chance we could have a country where people don’t routinely go hungry and/or cold and where public services work effectively. As you point out, others have the same.

That’s the funniest thing of all - £30k on clothes and he still looks like a provincial bank manager that shops in Next, and thinks he’s down with the kids when he puts on some trainers 🤣🤣

How are we not going to go bankrupt is the status quo remains the same? We borrow every month because we don’t take in anywhere near enough to meet the outgoings of the state. The simple facts are we are continually borrowing to pay for state services and welfare. Not enough people are paying in enough. We narrowed the tax base too far and those that are paying as net contributors are some of the most over taxed in the world.

I think we both agree that taxes need to go up if those are the services we want, and everyone (not just the rich) is going to feel the pain. I don’t agree with pushing 1 million more people into fuel poverty, but maybe that’s the price of a government of self service ;)

As for tipping point, it arrives quickly if confidence isn’t there. Look at what happened after Truss’s kamikaze budget. I’d like to think Reeves won’t be as stupid, and that she actually has talked to people who run businesses, but given the large number of complaints from business leaders at the Labour conference about no access to ministers, despite them paying £3k a ticket, I’m less confident as time goes by. Which I guess brings us back to the point of this thread!

I mean, why they paid £3k when a few clothes would have done, and maybe access to a luxury holiday one or two (which, incidentally this government wants to tax more…though perhaps this will fade way a as well…) I do not know

Business leaders demand money back after £3,000 conference ‘rip-off’

https://www.thetimes.com/article/65e5a58d-45f1-4918-aae8-0a9a7b2de0ec?shareToken=3197315ddcc45a75398cd632965e64bb

Anyone bitterly disappointed in Labour right now and who voted for them were likely the tribe who believed they had some magic wand to wave and that Starmer (or anyone) was in possession of a halo. A great deal of other Labour voters, who understood their policies and set them again the Tory policies, understood that, fiscally, Tory and Labour were not that different. There was very little ground to believe that some degree of austerity would not continue – it would have been very naive to think otherwise. Those defending Labour on this thread are simply realists and been from the beginning – I’m not sure why anyone would think there is any surprise element here. And the biggest belly laugh of all (because of you don’t laugh you’ll cry) is any attempt to make comparisons with the despicable behaviour of the Tories.

How are you so sure of that?

There are about a dozen countries that provide free healthcare, free education and state pension entitlement. Let's consider a few.

Looking at external national debt. Germany $80k per person and debt as a percentage of GDP is about 150%. Brazil and Argentina, about $8k and 65%.

Greece has national debt approaching $60k per person and debt as a percentage of GDP is 240%. Spain has $56k and debt is 160%.

By far the worst performer is the UK at $150k per person and 280%.

If you are that confident that benefits can be maintained without bankrupting taxpayers then I am all ears.

Labour need business and wealth creators more than anything else and they need to show respect. All we have so far is arrogance and incompetency. It is really bad.

You obviously haven't been following any of the disability rights organisations and reading what they are saying.

Do you have evidence to back
up what you’re saying?

FYI we don’t have “welfare” in the UK.

Every point, see my post above. I reiterate - Labour cannot do it alone.

It would be extremely peculiar if I hadn’t!

Again someone is arguing a point I haven’t made.

You have not answered my question as to why you are so sure the UK will not go bankrupt if it continues as it is.

Starmer and Reeves think we might.

How are people allowed to vote without knowing the basics of our economy. Have you been under a rock? Do you know what the word deficit means? The word used to describe our state outgoings? We are in deficit and have been for a very long time. Hence why out debt it’s increasing because we have to borrow every month to meet state spending.

Wow.

Labour don’t give a fck about disabled people.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/labour-manifesto-drops-key-disability-rights-pledges/

FYI we don’t have “welfare” in the UK. @ChallahPlaiter

Over £600 billion spent last year on free education, universal credit, disability benefits, the NHS, state pension. It seems like a lot of money to me.

And that disdain of disabled people, they didn’t try to hide to be fair. Just outright dgaf.

They didn’t hide this. People just didn’t pay attention because VAT on schools fees fees, evil rich, etc.

Do you really think that everyone who needs help can just get a better paying job? If you do, you are delusional. There will always be those on minimum wage, who genuinely struggle to make ends meet. Do you think the hundred of thousand people working in supermarkets, bars, shops, other retail, etc. can just get a job in the Civil Service or Local Government? I would say that’s laughable, but it’s so not funny. 🤬

I’m disabled, live alone and nowhere near state pension age. I am living on a very small private pension (£300), pip and my savings. I feel sick wondering how I’m going to manage, once my savings are gone.

I didn’t vote for this Government and I know I’m going to suffer under it. Unfortunately the voters were either too stupid or too blinkered to realise that the promises coming out of Starmer’s mouth, especially for those who really needed help, weren’t going to be delivered.

I remember it husband to be worked in a family business dependent on tourism. He'd saved a 50% deposit on a house. Earned less than me in local government. They refused my income But didn't think property would drop more than 50%. So he was approved. Good job they didn't take my salary into account when interest rates reached 16%.

It was bloody hard, no benefits available, so we ate beans on toast. I have fond memories of faggots Never put the central heating on but did fill the coal bunker and eked that out. Couldn't afford a television but radio was decent in those days.

I remember it too @justasking111 . It was grim and we never want to go back to it. The poorest suffered most, as they always do when anything goes bust.

I've no idea where you're getting those figures. They're completely wrong.

Actual debt to GDP ratios:
Germany = 63.4%
Greece = 160%
UK = 100%

That explains our councils new attitude. It's going to be means tested because we live in an area attractive to retirees who downsize with huge nests egg plus pensions. In our road NHS employees, police inspectors, university lecturers, all enjoyed the attendance allowance eventually. We're now being advised that it will be means tested if the younger generations want their bins collected.

Add to that the houses full of care in the community mental health, alcoholic guests, who madly got the WFA and spent it on drugs, drink.

A few years ago an alcoholic neighbour of my mother's got a disability car and a booze allowance.

Another care in the community man got an approved prostitute once a month.

Our council is now at a crossroads financially.