Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

Oh dear, OP, you do sound very interfering. It's absolutely none of your business how and when they travel with the children. You can feel how you feel but you should not voice it – no wonder they keep you at arm's length. Same with the wedding – they clearly wanted it privately between them. They are adults, they are allowed. You can be disappointed, but it's none of your business.

I think I can work out why things are the way they are now.

I have a MIL who ‚comments‘ on absolutely everything.. Also a very strange sibling of DH who lives at home and ‚comments‘ in an unpleasant and stirring way. It is exhausting and unpleasant. They live close but we barely see them.

Wow OP. So you have a daughter in law who, through no fault of her own, had to see parts of her country torn to tatters, had to be uprooted, had to leave her family, friends, language and culture and come to a completely different country where the narrow-minded mil her husband has warned her won’t approve of her (or his initial decision to stay in her country- this is allowed, even post-Brexit, btw - not everyone wants to stay local to their hometown and pop in for cups of tea) turns up
uninvited at the weekend (when she has 2 young children too so presumably numerous extra-curricular activities) then loudly criticises her choice to take her children to see their family when they can and keep ties with the culture their parents may well want them to return to. You’re completely out of order. Only you can fix that.

This must be a reverse or rage bait. If it is genuine then I’m really not surprised they’re avoiding you.

I would never, ever get over my parents making that kind of accusation.

That's clearly the reason why you weren't invited to the wedding and that and your general opinions attitude will be why they're not keen to see you.

Spot on.

I'm curious why DS didn't invite his brothers to the wedding either. Definitely a bigger story there somewhere

There's always two sides to a story and you not coming across well in what you gave written. Id like to hear your son's side

Your grandchildren haven't done all the things that you disagree with, you have not judged them regardless of their parents behaviour.

I don't agree with your DS limiting or denying them the pleasure of grandparents because of the way you have responded to him, whilst I don't think it has been tactful at times.

It's a lower level version of the non-resident parent who is difficult in child care arrangements out of hatred for the resident parent.

The problem with apologising is that it doesn't actually erase the original hurt. You stuck your oar in where it wasn't welcome, and now you're facing the consequences of that.

You think she's a gold-digger who puts her children at risk.
She knows you think she's a gold-digger who puts her children at risk.

I'm not surprised they don't really want to see you, and make excuses as to why they won't.
To be honest, I'm pretty surprised that your son still visits at all; and I think you should probably be more grateful for that, and stop trying to push the boundaries and demand contact.

Oooooof. Quite the drip feed. Well done @Justice4Friend for teasing that one out...

By the sounds of it they've distanced themselves from you because you're a loudly judgmental baggage. If my (delightful) MIL had said I was a gold digger you can bet your life she wouldn't be welcomed with open arms going forward. Time for self-reflection I think...

Stop being so judgemental. Btw you should be more pissed off with your son.

Wow, you're coming across very badly, OP. Surely it speaks volumes about your relationship with your son that he didn't tell you he was getting married and chooses not to see you more regularly? It's not his wife's fault.

What makes you think your DS's wife 'clearly has no respect for your family'? You haven't said anything she's allegedly done that's disrespectful. You do sound full of spite and vitriol, though. Who cares that they're paying below market rent? Lucky them! You should be pleased for them. They've had to completely uproot their lives and start again, your DIL with the trauma of having her country invaded and the constant worry of friends and family being killed.

Why on earth are you surprised that if you show up uninvited on a weekend, they inevitably have plans?! That's so rude of you! And they are being honest when they say the house is too small for guests if they live in a tiny two bedroom. Especially if you're as judgemental in real life as you are online. Have you tried saying, it would be great to see you, how about we meet [name a place halfway to both of you, that is child friendly] for lunch during half term?

You admit your DS does regularly bring the grandchildren to see you. Instead of being pleased (and you should be pleased - whether he tells you this or not, it's a massive pain in the arse to take one of probably only 2 free days of the week to schlep 2 young children to see someone who lives an hour a way), you complain that his wife doesn't come often enough for your liking. Perhaps she senses your unbelievable disdain? Or perhaps she's simply tired and needs a break every now and again?

You chose to spend hundreds of pounds on birthday gifts for very young children. It's completely ridiculous, but it was your CHOICE, not a commandment from your DIL. You cannot bribe your children/grandchildren into seeing you more by throwing money at them.

Finally, their mother would not take them away if it were not safe. Yes, going to Ukraine is significantly more dangerous than a jolly in France, but she has obviously made a risk-based decision. Travel at that age (or any age, for some) is exciting. A plane trip and train ride is not going to harm them. The more they travel, the more they get used to it. I think you should actually consider why the children's mother has willingly taken her children to see her family (despite the risks you seem determined to point out), yet YOUR DS has allegedly not bothered to make a similar effort taking the children to see you.

I also would stop "mentioning things that concern you out of care".

Should've put that in your opening post!
Saved us all time.
Well your reap what you sow.

Ukraine is hardly a 'war-torn country' - they have healthcare and aid-raid shelters. Kyiv itself is relatively safe as is most of the west. Gods, you made it sound like she's from Somalia or Syria. Yes, the situation is unstable and awful, but a lot of people still do travel in and out of Ukraine.

Honestly, you sound like you judged her from day one and instantly disliked her and your son KNEW you would be like that so he's deliberately kept you at arms length. Your behaviour is insulting, whether you want to recognise it or not.

FWIW, I have done the trip to Kyiv twice in the last year (for work). It's not a stressful journey at all - so acting like your grandchildren are going through untold trauma to travel there is beyond unreasonable.

Well you said to your son she could be a gold digger and then had to apologise

And then you've been blaming HER for his choices all along since then

I'm surprised he keeps in contact with you at all

This is ALL YOUR FAULT

I have no idea whether you can mend this but it's all on you to try

And you are still surprised not to have been invited to their wedding?
I am not Ukrainian but I have some adjacent ancestry and I can tell you that Slavic culture is not tainted with British superficial politeness. If someone said things like that about me, there will be no way in hell I would be eager to maintain relationships with them just because they happen to be related to my husband. I'd expect a personal apology as a minimum and best behavior from then on to even consider letting it slide. Seeing that you continue bashing her about the way she choses to live and parent, I am not surprised she washed her hands off you entirely.

You sound like my mother although thankfully she's not that bothered about my daughter. My mother criticises literally everything I do. When we moved into our first house on her first visit she went round the entire house pointing out all the faults in it. I threw her out of the house and that was the last time she visited our house.

I'm divorced now and see her every 3-4 weeks with my daughter as that's all my mental health will take.

My advice would be to take a big step back in order to take small steps forward to building a relationship with your son, his wife and their children. If you can't talk to each other in person then write a letter admitting your mistakes and apologising for them. Let then know how much you love them and want to be involved in their and your grandchildren lives and are prepared to "put in the work".

If you don't I guarantee you will be one if those grandparents who tells everyone they never see their grandchildren when in reality you are the reason why not them.

There was a reason why they didn't invite you to their wedding
I'm guessing it's your blatant dislike of your SiL
You will have a wasted journey if you turn up invited. What makes you think you would get a warm welcome? Delusion that's what.
You do not have any right to see your GC. Your DS and DiL are protecting them.
I think you need to reflect on your own behaviour.
You can post their presents

This is so common - in laws need to show real love and acceptance or a family will inevitably move away physically or emotionally.

There's nothing worse than parental disapproval for a new couple, making a new unit takes courage and a new family can feel very vulnerable. I remember my stepmother laughing at our ds's name - it's stayed with me - the insensitivity of it.

The key here is not her but your ds.

Ask him how they feel, have you offended them, can you change anything?

I'm not saying they're in the right - just that you need to find out in an open hearted way.

I thought similar. Ukrainian culture (tbh Slavic culture in general) is not British culture, and I imagine OP’s passive aggressive niceties have been met with, er, bluntness that OP will consider to be aggressive and rude. The DIL hasn’t, and won’t, meekly submit to OP.

OP, neither of them ’respect’ your family, and by ‘respect’ you mean ‘obey’, and by ‘family’ you mean ‘you’, and neither of them have to. They’re adults free to make decisions you aren’t required to approve of. It’s on you to respect that.

The OP has admitted that she raised concerns with her son about his fiancee being foreign, from a poor part of Europe and a possible gold digger.

She shows absolutely no empathy with her DIL who will be worried sick about her family in war-torn Ukraine. She gives her unwanted opinions about her DIL travelling home to see her parents.

I don't think that her grandchildren are being denied the pleasure of these grandparents as they don't sound very pleasurable at all. The OP is judgemental and critical of their mother so I'm not sure why she thinks she has any right to contact with her grandchildren.

His reason for not inviting us was "We might be judgmental of his choice"

I wonder why he thought that?!?!

Seriously OP, you sound insufferable. I read your initial post up to "when we turn up invited..."

What?! Why would you do that?!

Not once in the whole time my mum was alive did she ever turn up uninvited (even though she could have done whenever she wanted). She would always text / ring / plan in advance!

How bloody rude and entitled.