Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

@Maurepas the Duchess of Edinburgh is called Sophie.

So you were judgemental and standoffish from the start, and you wonder why they don't want much to do with you? You don't seem to have a single ounce of sympathy for your DIL having to flee a war zone, have you any concept of what is like to be essentially a refugee?
You don't approve of their small house, yet you want to fill it with £100s of presents? Where will they put them? You don't appear to have any interest at all in them, and they can probably do nothing right. And don't blame your DIL for your son not wanting to see you, he's a grown man with his own mind.

I'm afraid you have to massively change your ways if you want to make amends and try anew to form a relationship with your son, his wife and children.

You have been massively judgemental from the get go and obviously continue to be so. You need to take a step back, recognise you have been wrong, apologise and try and reset to go forward.

But are you capable and able to do this? Throughout this thread you have been critical of his wife and this is obviously coming through loud and clear to both her and your son.

Firstly you need to recognise you are in the wrong. Can you do this?

Your entitlement is astonishing! You do not have a right to be in the lives of those children or your son and it sounds like you have made your opinions very clear to them, I would be fuming if my parents questioned my parenting to this extent even if it comes from a "good" place.
Did they ask for your opinion about their relationship or parenting choices? If not, you are way out of line! So yes, YABU!

Absolutely not your place to say a word about it.

Can’t imagine why she doesn’t trust you.

Also, showing up unannounced and being offended they were busy?? Dear god, why?

Your dislike of DIL is actually based on your son’s choices. Why aren’t you blaming him for not inviting you to the wedding?

Omfg! No wonder his wife doesn't want to see you! Stop 'expressing concerns' ffs.

She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.

Why do you blame her for everything when it very much sounds like it's your DS's decision to keep you very much at arms length?

You sound very judgemental of their relationship, his wife and use the term ‘let her’ as if he makes all decisions. I’m afraid you need to reevaluate how you communicate with them. You could send presents without it being contingent on seeing them for example.

Hopefully you can reevaluate and build a more relaxed relationship.

Why did you not name Ukraine? You said the country went to war two years ago so it’s fair obvious. I’m just curious why people do this

I'm sorry that you feel sad about not being closer to your grandchildren.

If he didn't invite his brothers to the wedding either, it sounds as if there are quite longstanding issues in the whole family setup.

If you can, think positively. Your son is married, working and bringing up a family. He and his wife have managed to make a life in London through an excellent accommodation deal. He does bring his children to see you, despite a disastrously bad start where you actually accused his wife of financial motives in marrying him (WTF). Despite that, you have met his wife and do see her very occasionally.

What are the children like? Presumably they are bilingual? Do they have other Ukranian friends? It's good that they are in close touch with their heritage. I agree with sending them small presents or perhaps things like money for activities (they clearly don't have enough space for very big expensive presents so I would avoid that stuff). Maybe a regular video call including the children is going to be less stressful, and I think the suggestion up thread of seeing the children at sports days etc was a great idea. But above all, practice being positive abd counting your blessings in this relationship.

Your thread is glaringly obvious why they have cut you the way they have. Extremely judgemental and interfering. Their wedding, obviously there had been issues before for him to say he would have felt judged. Their kids, their business. You show up uninvited? Honestly you sound awful and I'd go low contact too.

Mil voiced her outrage at DH and I taking DS1 to the UK during COVID times (at the time, we did everything according to the rules but it was when the new variant appeared). I had gone so long without seeing my family, alone in the house with a colicky baby and I was struggling. So long as the flight was going and we were allowed in the country, I was getting on that plane. I will never forget screeching down the phone at DH (I heard her through the phone) yelling her disapproval (whilst she'd seen her grandchild so often since his birth and my dad was still yet to meet 17 month old ds).
We had a great relationship before ds was born. Since then it's broken due to her opinions and judgement. You may not agree with your gc going to (I assume Ukraine) but it's not your decision to make.

Your DIL doesn't like you. Her reasons are valid to her. The kids are hers and you have to respect her/their decisions in relation to them.

I think you're being given a hard time here, but then again, this is MN, where MIL's are the spawn of the devil.

I'd bet my hat, that not one of the keyboard warrier's on this thread would take their kids to Ukraine tomorrow. And furthermore, if they had adult DC who said they were going, they would urge them not to.

Not inviting parents to a wedding is unforgivable, barring an abusive upbringing.

My Dad and my FIL are both questionable as fathers, and have pulled some awful stunts, but me and DH still wouldn't go NC or be cruel, because they are our Dads!!

Some people are just weird. I know a lovely old lady, an absolute gem, who has never been allowed to meet her GC, purely because she questioned whether her son was the father (he had only met this girl 4 weeks prior to the pregnancy announcement). Totally fucking ridiculous.

Op, I'd just leave them to it. I'm surprised you're talking to them AT ALL after not being invited to the wedding. I'd consider changing the will at some point too.

To be honest I think this attitude isn't helpful. Sure, no one wants a 24h trip but it's to visit their family and have a relationship with them? If you're this disapproving it does make me wonder if they have picked up on that. I took my kids on a 24hr trip to Australia and yes it was hard but it was necessary for nice family times. Perhaps be a little more accepting of their decisions. Do you really think her kids shouldn't see their own family because it's a 24hr journey?

You chose to spend hundreds of pounds on birthday gifts for very young children. It's completely ridiculous,

... to store in a tiny 2-bedroom flat.

I can absolutely see why you don’t see your GC just from what you’ve written.

to change that you would have to be willing to change your behaviour and attitude drastically as well as apologise profusely and work hard to rebuild bridges. Even if you managed all that I’m not sure you can undo the damage already done. In your DIL shoes, I would not put myself or my children at any inconvenience to facilitate a relationship.

oh and turn up uninvited?! Who does that?! Good on your son for prioritising his wife and children.

They absolutely shouldn't be taking their children to Kyiv when the UK government has advised against all travel there and there is a very real danger.

Having said that, it sounds like you're only telling half the story. The relationship between you all had broken down massively a long time before that if they chose not to invite you to their wedding. So what led to that? It will have been a very severe case of events that led to that decision.

You sound a little like my v defensice mum - aware you've done something wrong/upset someone but not equipped with the tools to heal the rupture and make amends.

Perhaps you could ask to see your DIL and explain that the misteps you've made have come from a place of wanting to be involved and feeling out of control of your son's life (you sound a bit controlling!). Listen to her, properly, and be open to accepting some criticism.

Sadly OP that explains it. It sounds like your concern came across loud and clear and they going low contact is their reply.

If my family lived there, you can bet your hat I WOULD take my DC to see them. But then again, I'm just another foreigner who knows what it's like when Russia invades their country.

You're either incredibly stupid or lack any self-awareness to be befuddled by their lack of interest in seeing you...

Unless there's something she's not telling us, OP's concerns sound entirely reasonable. If they can take the kids back to Ukraine on a regular basis they ought to be able to make more of an effort to see granny who lives an hour up the road!

You're not unreasonable to be hurt, but you are extremely unreasonable if you don't accept responsibility for this situation. If you really want to salvage the relationship you need to be open and honest with your son about how you feel, admit you have made mistakes and stop interfering. Focus on rebuilding your relationship with your son and his wife rather than making it all about seeing your grandchildren.

Also you said your son never goes with them to Ukraine - really?? Why doesn't he go? Seems strange to me. You said you think he doesn't agree with it, but if he thought it was dangerous surely he'd go with them?

Given that the OP wants to see them and they, it appears, don't much want to see her, I don't think the OP "going NC" is the flex you seem to think that it is.